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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1993-09-27 - City Commission Workshop Meeting MinutesCity Council Workshop Meeting 9/27/93/KJ Page 1 CITY OF TAMARAC CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP MEETING MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 27, 1993 CALL TO ORDER: Mayor Bender called this meeting to order on Monday, September 27, 1993 at 9:00 a.m. in the Conference Room #1 of City Hall. PRESENT: Mayor H. Larry Bender Vice Mayor Irving Katz Councilman Norman Abramowitz Councilman Henry Schumann Councilman Joseph Schreiber Dina McDermott, Assistant City Manager Michael Couzzo, Director of Public Services/Assistant City Manager Mitch Kraft, City Attorney Karen Jackson, Secretary ***************************************************************** The purpose of this meeting is Council discussion regarding Canal Cleanup Project. Mayor Bender: Director of Public Services, Mike Couzzo, had... a... issued a memorandum dated September 24th on the subject. Have you had an opportunity to read it? Okay. Mike, you want to pick up the ... uh... Mike Couzzo: Certainly, Mayor. Mayor Bender: ...discussion? Mike Couzzo: At the direction of the ... the Mayor and Council, the Department went out and secured proposals from aquatic maintenance contractors. Three were submitted... one came back saying that he could do what the City Manager determined was needed and that was to provide for mechanical harvesting. And, in accordance with the memo that I have submitted to you on September 24th, the contractor gave us a price for 90 acres of approximately $300,000 to remove aquatic vegetation to a depth of approximately five feet across the 90 acres and 15 fee ... to a depth of 15 feet across a 10-acre section. That's ... we are looking for some direction as to how to proceed from this point. C/M,Schumann: Let me ask you a question here, on this minimum of five feet. Mike Couzzo: Yes, sir. C/M Schumann: Let's say the depth in that ... some of those areas is 10 or 15 or 20. Yes, Sir. C/M Schumann: We're only going down five feet ... a minimum of five. Do we have any type of readout on this as to whether this is gonna do the job or not do it by taking off only five feet? You're not gonna kill the vegetation by ... like you're not gonna kill grass when you mow it. Mike Couzzo: Exactly. C/M SChalmann: In other words, if you don't get the roots on this, we're wasting our time. Mike Couzzo: Well. City Council Workshop Meeting 9/27/93/KJ Page 2 Mayor Bender: Well, there's a ... there's a ... I think you didn't finish the whole program. This is just a cutting. Then you have ... don't you have other things there? Why don't you complete the whole thing? Okay. Mayor Bender: Explain everything about the... Mike Couzzo: Let ... let me go back and answer your question. That will be the first part. The second part, it would be the ... the Department would then go in immediately after and ... uh... well, and have to remove... The $300,000 is just for harvesting it. They will dump it in designated areas. The Department would have the appropriate manpower and the equipment and a disposal site for this project. V/M Katz: Which department? Dina McDermott: Public Services, us. Mike Couzzo: Public Services. u- • $T*T-� C / V A'sraw o rt ViYe .. VZM Katz: So all they're gonna do is cut it and stack it and we've got to move it. Mike uzzo: Yes, sir. And thirdly, which may answer part of your question, Councilman, is that after this is done, the Department, the Public Services Department would have to immediately go in and apply chemical treatment to ensure that the plants would die. C/M AbramowitZ: Mr. Mayor. Mayor Rendpr: Yeah, yes, go ahead. C/M Abra,mQkl tz: Uh...I... I'm very puzzled here. Last Thursday at a Broward County meeting, I had the occasion to talk to Roy Reynolds and everyone, and I think everyone knows who he is, he is the head honcho of the Broward County Water District. And .... uh... Roy was kind enough to spend about an hour with me after the meeting and the subject of what we spoke about is exactly what we're talking about. Now, I don't know...uh...I don't know who is ... uh...I mean giddyapping on this one over here, but, let me tell you what I have found out. And ... uh...I have found out that these ... this Hydrilla that we're talking about and these plants are loaded with pods and as you harvest them, and as you pick them up, you release millions upon millions of seeds who will then sink to the ... the bottom and start growing again. So, from the off -set, mechanical harvesting to me is a... is a... is a term... a long-term disaster. It's ridiculous. That's Number one. Number two, I question why all of a sudden the price went from $500,000 down to $300,000 and,s in talking to Michael, I found out, as he just stated, that the $500,000 was with them taking it away, the $300,000 is with us taking it away, which necessitates for a period of three months, a minimum of three men, two large trucks and two backhoes, which means that has to be taken away from other projects that these people are working on. I also asked Roy, there were some very, very enlightening things that I came up with and Mike, before I go any further, this thing City Council Workshop Meetinga. 9/27/93/KJ Page 3 about the seeds. Is this something, have you heard about this? I mean, is this something you were aware of? Mike Couzzo: Yes. C/M Abramowitz: Okay. Uh...in other words ... uh...Staff knew about ... uh... this ... this problem with the seeds. When you harvest this, you're releasing millions of... of potential, not potential, new...new areas of growth. Mike Couzzo: We're aware of that. C/M Abramowitz: Okay, Number One. Number Two, we talked uh... about fish. Now he tells me that the fish will eat only certain types of vegetation. There are, and by the way, I must tell you that he has indicated that the entire Broward County, some more and some less, have this problem. This is not only Tamarac. That the fish will eat some Hydrilla and there is another type of vegetation, and I don't remember the ... the technical name of it, that the fish will not touch at all. Mike Couzzo: Hygrophila. C/M Abramowitz: That's exactly. That's what it is. They will not touch it. So, in other words, he said, "There is no...". The only overall long-term, as permanent a you can get solution, is to address it with the chemicals and keep at it, and keep at it, and keep at it. Now, somewhere along the line, I think it was at the last meeting when we discussed this, I was led to believe that ... um ...or John told me this, John told me this, because I'm sure each of us question him if not daily, very frequently about what's happening with the canals. He tells me that there is a marked improvement in the canals and we are making headway. Now, if somebody is so hot to trot, okay, to spend money and do the job, why don't we then take and go to a company and we have four people and two boats working, Mike?. Is that what we have? Mike Couzzo: We have more than four people and we have two boats and we've just recently equipped a specialized mobile spray unit that can go behind condominiums. C/M,Ahramowitz: Well, okay. Whatever the case may be. If that be the case, why not go to somebody... instead of spending $300,000 and a fortune of money and taking this crap away... We're not spending it, Norman, we're discussing it. C/M Abramowitz: Okay. C/M Schumann: Don't get ahead of the horse. C/M Abramowitz: Well, the fact of the matter is... C/M Schumann: You don't know what you're talking about here. You're beating around the bush and saying nothing. Now, what are trying to say. C/M Abramowitz: Well, if you give me a chance, Hank, I'll say it. C/M Schap: Well, I've been listening here for 10 minutes and I don't know what you're talking about. C/M Abramowitz: I've been talking for three minutes and I'm just telling you what we have in front of us is a boondoggle. C/M Schumann: I can read it and I know it is. C/M Abramowitz: Okay. Now, let me tell you the solution that in my mind is to go out, hire a company, hire a fair amount of people on a ... on a term contract. Let them go out. Do exactly what we're doing. Spend maybe $80,000 or $90,000 bucks, not $300,000 City Council Workshop Meeting 9/27/93/KJ Page 4 or $500,000 and continue in the ... in the area that the experts say is the only one that can correct this. It's as simple as that. Mayor Bender: First of all, let me say a couple of things. First of all, we're not doing anything yet. This was brought ... I asked that we have this Workshop so everything is brought to the people here, the Council for them to discuss it and no decisions were made on it. Michael knows that. Okay. It's here to define it. Now, it's not a matter of, you know, rushing into anything. We did send a letter out three months ago saying that we were going to do something within 90 days. The information I used was what Public Works gave me, okay. So, we're trying to keep a schedule on the 90 days to show that something is being done. Now this doesn't necessarily have to be the thing that's gonna be done. Whatever your pleasure is, whatever you feel should be done, let's get it ... let's get off the ball and... and... you know, get ... do... do something. That's all I'm saying. C/M Abramowitz: Who said 90 days? I'm curious to find out who gave a guaranty of 90 days? Mayor Bender: We didn't give any guarantees. They said approxi- mately 90 days and that came from Public Works and the City Manager. C/M Schreiber: In the discussion it came out that in 90 days they would address the problem and show the public that something was happening. That's the 90 days. Can I ask some questions? Mike... Mike Couzzo: Yes, Sir. C/M Schreiber: In the removal of the aquatic plants that this company is going to take off, you're gonna use so much help and material. Have you estimated the cost to the City during that three-month period? Did you come up with any kind of numbers? Mike Couzzo: What we just figured that what ... what they have done is they said they needed a three-month time frame in which to accomplish the harvesting. What we would have to do is to provide them a ... uh...a... CLM___Schreiber: Give them a... Mike Couzzo: ... backhoe... C/M _Schreiber: A ... a...a... do... Mike Couzzo: ...backhoe or two, a couple of work trucks... C/M Schreiber: ...you have a ... a ballpark figure what it would cost the City? Mike Couzzo: I figure it's $50,000 or $60,000. C/M SQhLgiber: All right. So, we're talking about like $360,000, Three hundred and sixty... Mike Couzzo: Right. Yeah. You have to add the other side on. C/M _Schreiber: Excuse me. There's a big question of whether the mechanical harvesting will work anyway and I don't think you believe it will because in my discussions with you, you seemed to feel that C/M Abramowitz said that the pods released when the harvesters will create new growths so we'll continually have a problem. Not only that, you're not going down to the base, you're only going five foot down. C/M Schumann: You're wasting time here. You're not digging the roots up. City Council Workshop Meeting 9/27/93/KJ Page 5 N C/M Schreiber: Let me ... let me finish. Mike Couzzo: Okay. Okay. C/M Schreiber: It's obvious that probably the most successful way to do it is to do it with chemicals and not with harvesting. In... in essence, why go into a harvesting program that's not going to work anyway. What we want to do is show the people of this City the fact that we're charging 'em $2 a month and we're doing something. So we have an option... either to hire a company to come in and do this on a complete program, chemically wise, or have our own people do it if you hire enough help or what, whatever. We have ... I've got an estimate here from Lake Doctors who spelled out a program that you must have. It talks about monthly treatment, coming in, doing the whole job, and they charge $13,300 a month, which is $159,600 over a year. Mike ,Couzzo: Right. S/M Schreiber: Now that's not a bad figure compared to what has been offered. Can the City do better? Can the City ... uh... let's say put down six or eight teams, two -man teams and go out. The idea is to show the public that we're doing something. Once they see boats on the canal cleaning and working, they're happy. Mike Couzzo: Right. C/M Schreiber: And ... and if it's done right, I think it will be successful. That's to be seen. Mike CgUZTD: Let me just...let me just say about mechanical harvesting. What it does do is it gives you an immediate ... uh... C/M Ss umann: Cosmetic cuts. Mike Couzzo: Cos ... right. It gives you an immediate fix. That's exactly right. What it does in very highly concentrated areas, is it removes them and it...it gives you that immediate. But it's not ... it's not going to be cure-all. It has to be immediately followed up by a chemical treatment. This is going to be a process, Gentlemen, that you're going to have to be involved in every month, of every year, forever. C/M 5gh,reiber: Forever? Mike Couzzo: And the ... the chemicals have the longest ... the longest and the most potent treatment because what it is is they're called systemic chemicals which when the plant grows like this, the ... hits the plant, goes down through the plant, goes, as C/M Schumann's looking for, goes all the down in through the root system, kills the entire plant. Kills the seedlings so they don't regenerate. That ... that's what you want to do ultimately. To answer C/M Schumann's question before, if you have a 15, 20 foot plant, you cut five feet off the top of the plant, what you've done is you've eliminated five feet at the top growth and if that's what you're looking for, then... QZMSChumann: You put a band -aid on an incision... Mike Couzzo: ...all right... but... but it's coming back up. C/M Schreiber: Where are the pods? The pods are on top of the plants. Mike Couzzo: The pods are throughout the plant. C/M Schreiber: Oh. Mike Couzzo: They're gonna be thrown all over the place. City Council Workshop Meeting 9/27/93/KJ Page 6 C/M Schreiber: By ... by cutting it, you're releasing the pods. Mike Couzzo: Absolutely. All right. Dina McDermott: Mr. Mayor. C/M Abramowitz: For a half -a --million dollars, it's just a boon- doggle. Q/M Schumann: Like ... like C/M Abramowitz says, "You've got to kill it or you're wasting your time". Now I've looked at some of these photographs here and one of them shows that Roto-Tiller from Aqua Mark for aquatic removal. If you don't get the roots on this, you're just... Mike_Couzz: Right. Q/M Schumann: ...spinning your wheels. Mike Couzzo: And what I was going to say is... C/M Schumann: I wouldn't spend $30,000 to do that. Mike CoUZZ : ...what I mentioned was that out of the 90 acres, the contractor is going to use that Mog for 10 of the ac... 10 of wha... acres that we're going to determining the worse. If we wanted to use the Mog for the entire 90 acres, that price is going to drop... jump off dramatically. Mayor Bender: What ... what price did he give you for maintenance... Mike Couzzo: His price for maintenance... MayQg Bender: ...per month... Mike Couz72 ...was if I recall about two... about $19,000... Mayor Bender: That's right... Mike Couzzo: ... per month and it was somewhere in the area of $240,000 annually. Mayor Bender: That's... that's a big nut, too. Mike Couzzo: Yeah. That's a large number. C/M Abramowitz: Do you... Mayor Bender: I feel ... I feel that we can do it ourselves cheaper than what they want. V/M Katz: Everybody's bypassing Dina and she's champing at the bit. MavgK Bender: Go ahead. Dina McDermott: Mr. Mayor ... uh...several months ago the Public Services Department did take a much more aggressive means of chemical treatment and we need to decide which direction we'd like to go and whether we buy more chemicals, add more Staff or contract out. And my recommendation would be if we're going to contract out to get chemical treatment, we need to address the different bids that we did receive. And we have funding available to do that. Mayor Bender: Funding available to do what? 1 E Dina MCDermott: To ... to do chemical treatment. City Council Workshop Meeting 9/27/93/KJ Page 7 Mayor Bender: Oh ... okay. Dina McDermott: If the Council chooses to do chem...additional chemical treatment in addition to what Staff is presently doing. C/M AbrdMowitz: Are these the only three people in...in... that you know of who can, forget about mechanical harvesting, are these the only people who can bid on the project of... Dina McDgrmott: No. C/M Abramowitz: ... doing...all right? So... Dina McDermott: We can go out for bid again... C/M Abramowitz: So... so... Dina McDermott: ...if you choose too. ...I have seen this Council over here, when they went to spend $4,000, say they want all kind of documentation and backup. Spend this kind of money if the Council so decides that's the way to go, then I would like to go out for bid again. I'm not going to go out and spend... I'm not going to vote to spend a -half - a -million bucks or $300,000 just...uh... you know for cosmetics. Mayor Bender: Well, uh...let me say this. Of the three bids, explain to the Council that two of the bidders didn't ... uh... want to do anything ... uh... on mechanical harvesting. Dina McDermott: Okay. Of the three bids that we received, we had received a bid from Aquajet which was $48,000 for an Advisor to tell us what to do. Obviously, that's something that we do not need at this time. C/M Schumann: Next case. Mayor —Benda : Okay. Dina MCDer ott: The second one was Aquatic Vegetation Control. Q/M Schumann: I can tell you what to do, too, for nothing. Dina Mgper tt: Of course. Mayor Bender: And... and... what's the next one? I want you to hear this. Dina McDermott: The... the... the next one is Aquatic Vegetation Controlling and it provides no mechanical harvesting. However, in their bid I do believe that they did included... they did include a chemical treatment in the amount of $93,000. It was not a very good... Mavor Bender: What... Dina McDermott: ...program. Mayor Bender: ...when you say $93,000. For what? Dina McDermott: $93,600 for payment for spraying of our canals but they didn't give us... Mayor Bender: For... for what? For one shot? Dina McDermott: They really didn't specify. City Council Workshop Meeting 9/27/93/KJ Page 8 Dina McDermott: So it's not a very clear bid so obviously that wouldn't be acceptable. Mayor Sender: I'm... I'm saying this is what we've got. We've got three bids. C/M Schumann: Tell 'em that we have to provide these people... Mayor Bender: Okay. Dina McDermott: Exactly. The next one was Environmental Waterway Management which is this Company that would provide mechanical harvesting and/or for $99,000, chemical treatment. But if the Council desires us to go out for bid for chemical treatment, we can rebid it. C/M Abramowitz: Mr. Mayor. Go ahead. C/M AbraMowitz: I just wanna...I just wanna make some ... a short... Dina... Dina McDermott: Yes, Sir. Mike Couzzo: They didn't bid recently. C/M Abramowitz Roy Reynolds gave me a name that I gave to you of the most proficient and experienced man in this ... in Broward County. s _ O - 1-1 C/M aramowitz: He told me that he would make sure that he would work with the Staff. Mike Cni=o: He has been working with us. His name is Ross Hooks.. C/M Abramowitz: Oh... okay. But he would... Mayor Benue: He has been working with us... C/M Abramowitz: ...devote time to us... Mayor Bender: ...he has been working with us. C/M Abtamowit7.: Okay, and I would appreciate if I get his... Mayor Bender: Vice Mayor. V/M „Katz: Two things. Number One, Lakes of Carriage Hills. We have somebody that comes in and treats all our lakes and... and it's been very successful ongoing thing. We don't really have a problem except that we pay them. So, if you want to check with the Board of Directors in Lakes of Carriage Hills, who they use and how much they pay and what kind of experience. That ... that's fine. Uh... there is another contractor that does work for Bermuda Club on the same type of basis. Uh... their Board, and I spoke at their Association last week, and ... uh... they are ... are happy. They would just assume keep what they have and not pay the $2. But ... uh... you may want to check with them. Dina, you said there's funding available. Where is that funding? Dina McDermott: Well presently, under the Stormwater Management Program, we haven't received any revenues as of yet. V/M Katz: But that's where you... Fj 1-1 Dina McDermott: But, well ... the finance source that is available to us is our Cash Pooled Fund which is the fund that would City Council Workshop Meeting 9/27/93/KJ Page 9 contribute money to spend to do any kind of intervention at this point. It wouldn't be ... we don't have any $2 coming in yet but as it comes in it would reimburse the Cash Pooled Fund. Before Mary Blasi left, that's the recommendation that she had and that's how you adopted the budget for the Stormwater Utility. Is that you'd have a Stormwater Utility Fund. As the revenues come in, if we had any previous expenditures prior to the revenues coming in, we would use our Cash Pooled Fund money cash. V/M Katz: And that with what's left was $140,000 that's ... uh... left in the General Fund is a surplus. They're two different items. Mayor Bender: No, that's a different item. Dina McDermott: Cash flow... V/M Katz: Okay. Let me understand... Dina McDermott: ...it's like our major checking account for the entire City. V/M Katz: ...let me understand what you're saying. Dina McDermott: Okay. We have a Cash Pooled Fund. It's all of our cash ... all of our available cash within the City. V/M Ka: Daily? Dina McDermott: And on ... on occasion when we have an expenditure that we need but we don't have the revenue coming in to match that expenditure, we borrow money from the Cash Pooled Fund. When the revenues come in, we reimburse that Fund. Mayor Bender: It's an operational cash fund. y/K-Katz: Wait a minute. Just ... just a minute. Wha... what you're saying is that this Cash Pooled Fund has already been dedicated funds to other things but what you're doing is money comes in to Treasurer here today and... and it's a Cash Pool until you disburse it tomorrow and in the interim you're expecting to utilize that Fund? Dina McDermott: We can. It's an option avail... y/M Katz: I ... I... Y/M Katz: Okay. ...able to us... Isn't that Fund... ...for this program. C/M Schreiber: ...invested daily? V/M__Kat_z: Just a minute, Joe. I ... if...if that money is available today for a dedicated use tomorrow and you use it for something other than the dedicated use, what happens when this bill has to be paid and that money isn't there? Dina McDermott: Well, there is money. There's daily balances that are available and they fluctuate on a daily basis. And yes, the money is used for investments. The Investment Advisory Board presently, at the time, would like to take all the money and put it into investments and we're saying, "No. We've got some expenditures that we need to do on short-term problems that we need the funding for." And Finance is recommending that if we choose to take this type of intervention before we receive the City Council Workshop Meeting 9/27/93/KJ Page 10 revenues for the Stormwater Management, we can use some of this funding. I don't have a balance for you today but it's ... it's available. Mike • Maybe I can help explain it just a little bit. It would be as if you have your mortgage and you have 12 monthly mortgage payments over the course of a year. What happens is out front you have all of those mortgage payments but you're only going to use them every month. Y.ZMKatz: Mike, you don't have to explain. Mike Couzzo: Okay. You've got it, right? C/M Abramowitz: It's called creative financing, Michael. It's how guys wind up in jail. Mike Couzzo: I'm only telling you how it goes. V/M Katz: That's what I used to do when I first started in business and I didn't have the money, I'd write a check from a Connecticut account and deposit it in New York. It used to take 14 days. In that 14 days, I knew that I could put it back. But, that's not what I would like to see the City do. Dina McDermott: Mr. Mayor. V/M Katz: No problem. Mayor Bender: Yes? Dina McDermott: Would you like to give us Council direction? Mayor Bender: Yes. 'That's what ... that's what this discussion is about today. To get all the facts and ... and we want ... we want to give you direction. may: It was all legal, by the way. Mike Couzzo: So, may I just interject one other thought. What you're suggesting as what the contractors are doing at Lakes of Carriage Hills and some other areas, they're using a chemical that we have not wide ... used wide -spread throughout the City that is the most effective chemical on the market. V/M Katz: I'm aware of that. Mike ,Qg11zzo: And the reason we have not used it is because of the fact that we need to advertise that we are using it, we need to tell the public that they cannot draw down for irrigation purposes, that water that's been treated... C/M Schreiber: What is that chemical? Mike _Couzzo: It's called ... uh...Sonar. C/M Schreiber: Sonar? Mike Qouzzn: Yeah. What happens is if you ta...if you treat the —the body of water with Sonar, then you take the irrigation and put it on the lawn, you run the potential risk, and I don't believe the risk is high. C/M ,Schreiber: So the grass burns off. Couzzo:Mike Absolutely. We can ask (words inaudible) Dina McDermott: We can ask (words inaudible). 1 Mike Couzzo: So, you have to tell these people ... but see...let me tell give you the next... City Council Workshop Meeting 9/27/93/KJ Page 11 C/M Schreiber: You can do that. Mike Couzzo: ...equation. When you advise that, it's not a 30- day program. It's not like you're saying, "You can't draw down for 30 days because...". C/M Schumann: Residual. Mike Couzzo: Yeah, there is a residual and we're going to be doing constant application. Mayor Bender: We have a lot of people using... V/M Katz: Of course they do. C/M Schreiber: Most of them draw down... Mike Couzzo: So you need to look at that. So we have been using less ... less dramatic chemicals. But we are certainly looking at using that chemical. It is the most effective chemical on the market. V/M Katz: We have grass on our banks. We have grass on all our lawns and this water is taken right from the same lakes that are treated. Now if it can be done in Bermuda Club and Carriage Hills, it can be done anywhere else. Mike Couzzo: But, what I was going to suggest to you is although I believe the probability and the possibility of having a negative effect and adverse effect on a lawn is small, it still exists and we have a responsibility. Even the manufacturer tells you of letting these people know. Then you ... you eliminate the burden by advertising and telling people, "You should not draw down". And, if they choose to, they do it at their own risk. C/M Schreiber: You... you... you destroy all the lawns at all the condominiums... Mike Cguzzo: It's not ... it's not a likely... Dina McDarmott: Not bad. Than we can Xeriscape. Mike Couzzo: ...situation. Mayor Bender: I ... I had a meeting with ... uh... with Mike and Dina McDermott on Friday and we discussed this thing and we all discussed a contingency plan and the contingency plan was that you were to hire as many people as you need, not to do the harvesting and to, you know, have a physical appearance of a lot of people working, doing the job and proceed along those lines. Now, that's one of the alternatives we spoke about. That's ... I'm putting on the table as an alternative. And let ... let's see if we can give him some direction. C/M SchUMan: What are other cities doing? Mayor Bender: I'll get you in a minute. Mike „Couzzo: The ... the main thing is that ... that the most effective long-range plan is going to be a combination of ... uh... in my opinion, chemical and biological treatments which is the utilization of chemicals to treat the fish. We're going to need to get into a fish program so the fish eat away. It's not a one- shot deal. You're not going to put 'em in this year and then say, "I'm not putting fish in... C/M Abram witz: That's right. Mike colazzo: ...for 10 more years". You're going to lose some of them through death or whatever. City Council Workshop Meeting 9/27/93/KJ Page 12 C/M Schreiber: Could you... could you vacuum the surface of the water and clear off and... and give an appearance... Mike Couzzo: We could do a little of that. We have a vacuum... C/M Schreiber: You know why? Because when people look at the canals... Mike Couzz o : Sure. We have ... C/M Schreiber: ...they see it is covered with all that green... ...done that a little bit. C/M Snhteib r: ...floating (words inaudible). Mike Couzzo: It's algae. C/M �chKeib r: If you could vacuum that up when you go into your program... Mike Q_o_zzo: Let me give you another quick... C/M Schreiber: It would give a better appearance. Mike Couzzo: ...quick 30-second problem. Once you take the ... chem... the Hydrilla... Hygrop..., spray it and kill it, what happens is, it dies. But then it provides a nutrient for algae to develop. C/M_Snhumann: Sure. So ... it's ... you've killed one problem but created another. You can't not kill this problem without creating this problem. So then we treat for the algae. So you have to be ... it's an intensified program. Like I said, we have boats in the water now. We have the other rig running. As of October, another boat has been appro... been appropriated. We can go with certainly with what the Mayor is suggesting. Put a large number of people in. I think that it would be very effective and I think that you'd achieve the ... the visual results in the community that I believe you're all looking for. C/M Abramowitz: Before I ... before I do anything, before I would go out and hire a lot of people, I would like everything to think of the long-term ramifications of this because it'll come a time where you don't need that many people for the lake. Let me finish. So, first of all, I'd like to know what it costs... Mike Couzzo• Okay. Q/M Abramowitz: okay, versus hiring somebody else. No question. Hiring somebody else in the short-term might cost more but in the long-term, might be effective and the second recommendation I would make to anybody ... to anybody, that gives a guaranty, how long it's gonna take before anything gets done. I would like them never to do that again because that's as bad as you possi... I don't know who did it and I don't know who made the statement and I don't know... it certainly didn't... didn't come from me or didn't come from anything that I heard about 90 days. And, there is nothing wrong with going out and telling the people what the truth is. There is nothing wrong with that. If you tell them that we are addressing it aggressively, we are going, we are spending the money, we're doing it. It didn't ... it didn't occur in three weeks or five weeks or 90 days and it's not gonna be gone in 90 days. It's as simple as that. I don't know why everybody is so preoccupied with seeing a lot of people out there and having the ... these are not stupid people. If you tell 'em what the truth is and tell 'em what you're doing and tell 'em this is the long- City Council Workshop Meeting 9/27/93/KJ Page 13 range program where this won't occur again, people are gonna fly with ya. Mayor Bender: Well, let me just... C/M Schrelb r: They won't believe you. Mayor Bender: Well let me ... let me just say this. Mayor Bender: Let me just say this. Maybe your people won't but first of all... C/M S_chreiber: My people are your people. Mayor Bender: First of all let me say this ... that I have received at least three letters with at least 50 minimum ... 50 names in each one, bitching and complaining like crazy that they want something done with the canals. I furnished all this information to our City Manager. Okay. And we had many meetings on it to see what we can get ... do about getting a program going. Now the people, just as recently as ... as last week, called up and said they have ducks walking across the canals 'cause that's how thick it is with... C/M Abramowitz: Ah, that's one person. Maybe, Mr. Peretzman. Mgvor_Bender: All right? It wasn't Mr. Peretzman. Q/M Schreiber: He's a very busy man. Mavor Bender: What —what I'm trying to say is, "You can talk all you want". The public out there wants to see some action. And I think it behooves us, as Elected Officials, to do something. All right? I don't care what you want to do but get something going. It's as simple as that. Now, I said to Mike, Friday, "It looks to me like this is a lot of money. I don't particularly care to spend that kind of money". And Mike recommended that for this kind of money and about half of that money they ... they can do a yeoman's job by hiring temporary people, okay, not permanent people, temporary people, for as long as they need to clean this thing up. And then, he'll have to make a decision how many he wants main ... keep to maintain this thing. C/M Abramowitz: Who knows if they have to licensed in order to spray? Mike Couzzo: Let me suggest ... let me suggest Yes, they do. Mike C iu= : ...let me suggest, wait a second, let me suggest a course of action. They don't all have... Dina McDermott: They all don't have to be.... Mike CouZzo: ...have to be licensed to spray. Dina McDermott: ...licensed? Mike C uzzo: No, they do not all have to be licensed to spray. Mayor Bender: Just one person has to be licensed. Mike Couzzo: One license can be used by 15 applicators. Okay, so we... so we can ... they all don't have to be. Let me suggest to you this course of action. That we will continue to provide service as we have, an accelerated rate. We may intensive that and simultaneously with doing that ... uh...in...in accordance with your comments, we would look to hire and the Mayor was sugg... hiring temporary personnel in order to achieve the desired goal on a City Council Workshop Meeting 9/27/93/KJ Page 14 short-term, maybe three or four months. And, in addition, at the same time, go out for a bid from private contractors and get a price from them to see what that service cost would be because they have a lot of the equipment and the personnel on -hand to supplement what we're going to be doing in-- house. Then you'll have the option of choosing a variety, what's the most economical way to do what you're looking for. C/4 Abramowitz: How long would it take you if you were to start tomorrow to put temporary help on, go through all the rigmarole, do whatever you have... Miko Couzgg: Temp... C/M Abramowitz: ...to do. Mike Couzzo: ...temporary help's easier, temporary help's faster. C/M Abramowitz: Whatever the case may be. Mike Couzzo: A couple of weeks. C/M Abramowitz: Can we provide them, okay? In a couple of weeks could you not have a bid? Mike Couzzo: Sure. C/M Abramowitz: Okay. So why don't ... why don't ... why doesn't this group over here have before them both options before you exercise your option. Mike Couzzo: That's what I'm suggesting you do. C/M_Abramowitz: No, I'm talking about not go out and hire help tomorrow. Mike Couzzo: No, no. I would ... what we would do immediately... Mayor Bender: It takes two weeks. Mike Couzzo: ...is do our people go out for bid if that's the direction immediately and I can give you at the same time that you analyze the bids, what it would cost us to bring temporary people on to provide that service. C/M Schreiber: Let me ask you a question. How many crews would you need to be effective. In other words, you're using two -man crews, right? Mike Couzzo: Yes. C/M Sclareibe How many crews would you need... Mike _Couzzo: What we have... C/M achreiber: to really be effective an ... and make an impact on this problem. Q/M_AbraMowitz: What about the boats? Mike Couzzo: We have three crews currently working. C/M SchreibeK : You don't have enough boats. we ... we have two boats and we're purchasing another boat as of October 1, which is right around the corner. Well, would three crews be adequate to... 1 1 City Council Workshop Meeting 9/27/93/KJ Page 15 Mike Couzzo: I think that three crews, at ... from one of my discussions with all of you, the three crews would be adequate with the mobile unit once we knock down ... uh... the small problem. We've identified that there are approximately 80 acres remaining that have still have more than a problem that we'd like to have at this time. Eighty acres So, we'd like to get in. This is the ideal time to do it in October and November because of the ... the growth of the plant now starts to go into ... uh... a little bit of remission. This is when you want to hit it. It's not in... it's not in a growth stage and actually it's more vulnerable to chemical treatment at this time. So now, we want to put more chemicals out there. You want to get 'em. At the same time, we want to supplement it by starting to put in the fish every couple of months. A couple of thousand of them, 3,000, and get that program started. C/M Schreiber: How many crews do you have now? Mike Qguzzfi: Three. C/M Schreiber: Three. You have three now? So why can't you get started now and at the same time bring in bids. You've got the crews anyway. Mike Couzzo: Let me suggest to you that... C/M Schreiber: You're doing it. Mike Couzzo: ...When we ... when we... C/M Abramowitz: They're doing it now. Mike Couzzo: ...when we tell the people we have been doing it. That's why ... that's why the problem is so much less than what it was. At one time we had one crew an —and one boat with one man who went around in a truck and picked up some of the debris. That was not enough to adequately address the problem that we experienced over this past Summer. We realize that. C/M Schreiber: All right, so you're working now and in the meantime you can get the bids and make a comparison and decide wha... what's the best course of action to take. C/M Abramowitz: Excuse me. Mike, I'm sure that you know this, but Roy told me that there are certain waterways within the system that you are not allowed to put fish in. Now I'm not acq...I'm not acquainted with it and ... but that's why I'm saying to you, "Please, especially for free, get all the good advice that we could get". Mike Couzzo: We have and I have personally spoken to Roy and individually mentioned before as the Gentleman by the name Mr. Hooks. He has come out and analyzed our system. The only place you can't put fish is in a contained... is in a non -con... Dina McDermott: Non -contained. Mike Couzzo: ...Thank you ... non -contained body of water. We have designed a gate structure for the culverts so me fish remain in the body of water that they're placed. y/M Katz: This only holds true where you have a canal, okay? Where you have lakes... Mike Couzzo: Yeah, we don't have very many of them, though. C/M Abramowitz: What, lakes? Mike QoUzzo: Believe it or not. No, there —whether you know ... you may see it as a lake but they're interconnected with a City Council Workshop Meeting 9/27/93/KJ Page 16 culvert. C/�ramowitz: Oh, I understand what you're saying, yeah. Mike Couzzo: So, I ... I mean it may look like a lake, but they are all interconnected. V/M Katz: There is a difference though. We have, give you Carriage Hills, as two 24-inch out -law ... out -fall lines which are overflow to... it Mike Couzzo: Uh... huh. Y/M K,tt : ... uh... keep ... uh... uh...a steady level. If these go into a canal, you're going to lose all your fish. As soon as that water level gets above so that the 24-inch two 24's... uh... Mike Couzzo: That would probably... V/M Katz: ...have water in them. Mike,Couzzo: ...that would probably require sp... uh... uh... a gated... Dina McDegmott: A screen. Mayor Bender: Or screen in it. Mike o: ...or some type of screening device. MavQr r: Yeah, you have to screening to ... to ... to prevent this. C/M Abramowitz: This... this... the only thing that disturbs me is and what really bothers me is the absolute haste, okay. Everybody wants to do it. Everybody is besieged with the telephone calls. It just so happens the first positive thing that I've heard about this in the last four months is that I spoke to somebody ... uh...in Temple and he said to me, "What's happening?" He said, "Our body of water is looking better. Is that temporary?" He says, "It's looking better." Mike Couzzo: Yeah. C/M Abramowitz: So ... so. I mean that doesn't mean that everything is good... �_ • -11•- • C/M Abramowitz: ...but if we're gonna go into a long-range program which ap... necessitates spending large amounts of money, let's do it properly, let's do it effectively and let's not go ... uh...let's not be so concerned with public ... uh... uh... you know...uh... uh... views. V/M_Katz: Opinions. C/M Abramowitz: Yeah, what they look at. Let's do it right. Mayor Bender: Norman, this is what I've been trying to do. You say it's in haste. There is nothing haste about this thing. About a year ago, one year ago, we got on this subject. It's a matter of record, and we asked the... C/M Abramowitz: But you didn't have the money then. Mayor Bender: We had ... we had... C/M Abramowitz: You have the money now. Why didn't we do it a year ago. Why didn't we pass this legislation a year instead of now! City Council Workshop Meeting 9/27/93/KJ Page 17 Mayor Bender: You let me talk, please? C/M Abramowitz: Okay. Mayor Bender: A year ago I asked the City Manager to get on this thing and he said he would. All right. And he made an attempt to do it. I've been in touch with them all during...a long period of time. It got out of hand, okay? Tha... that's the God's honest truth. It got out of hand, all right. Now we have to get it back into shape. So it's not a rush thing. It's been going on for a year. Now, that's why I'm saying, we got to get direction. Now, nobody's rushing here individually. We're doing it as a team and we want to give direction to these people, to Public Works, and how to proceed on this thing. Now I'd like to get some recommendations... C/M SChreiber: I ... I think that they have some direction now. In other words, it...it...it seems to be a consensus that we should go into a chemical program rather than harvesting. We should secure bids and at the same time we're working on the problem. When we get the bids, we'll see whether we, the City, can do the job or whether outside contractors. Mayor Bender: Okay, now I heard the... GIM Abramowitz: I'll ... I'll fly with that. Mayor Bender: Okay. But the course of action is with chemicals. Mayor Sender: Okay, I agree with that too. Now, as far as I'm concerned, Mike said in two weeks he'll have both bits. All right. Dina MQDermott: We'll need to go out for bids. Mnygr Bender: All right? He'll have the ... he'll have his figures... Mike Couzzo: Yeah. Mayor Bender: ...and the contractors. Mike Couzyo: We'll need to advertise. I think we can because of the fact that we've been out a little bit. I think we can fast track it. Two weeks is real optimistic, but... Dina_-MCQ!Qrmott: Mr. Mayor, please. C/M Abramowitz: Well, all I'm saying is, "Let's not give them any promises". Mike _Co,uZzo: Yeah, but I think...I think that if the... C/M _Abramoyvitz: Let's not give 'em any promises. Mayor Bender: Let me finish please. If...if...if maybe you can get some of these things by phone... Dina MCDermott--: No. Mayor, please. Mayor Bender: Yes? Dina MCDermott: It's...for the kind of money that we're talking about, it realistically, will probably be over $10,000, which is ... meaning that we have to go out for bid. Let's go out for bid. We can get the paperwork going today. We'll get the bidder's list together. With ever ... what ever vendors have bid to City Council Workshop Meeting 9/27/93/KJ Page 18 us previously, like for Carriage Hills, Bermuda Club, we'll find out all the companies that are available. We'll send them a bid package. We need to advertise. Maayor Bender: Oh ... oh ... okay, fine. That's one part. The other part is you have to prepare some... Mike Couzzo: Yes, we'll look at something. Mayor Bender: something for the cities. What the expenses are it for the cities. Mike Couzzo: There is one other...there is one other alternative if yu... you choose to uh... uh...select it as something we want to do now. Roy Reynolds and his people will be willing to come in immediately and assist with their equipment and their spray units and their personnel at a rate of $65 an hour. I believe it's right in that area ... uh...and the chemical cost. If we wanted to do that right away, we could probably do that. C/M Abramowitz: Let me address that, please? I have asked him and the thing that you have to be very careful of, that'll be the cheapest thing that you could possibly do, including hiring your own. But the difference is, does he have the availability... Mike Couzzo: That's one (words inaudible) C/M Abramowitz: ...to address ... to address our problem here, in a timely fashion. In other words, I would vote for that in a second, in a second, because that certainly is the cheapest. You can cut it ... bring it on and cut it off in a minute. You have no problem and he knows he's got to take care of us. But the difference is, if he wants to send out a crew, you follow me... Mike CQUZZo: Yes. C/M Abramowitz: ... that ... that's not wha... what I think we're looking for. Mike Couzzo: Yes. Let me suggest —let me suggest this to you. C/M Schumann: There are what, County Employees? Dina McDermott: Yes. Q/M Abramowitz: Yeah. Mike Couzzo: These are ... these are Water Management District employees. Let me suggest this to you that... C/M Abramowitz: Not County but Water Management. Dina McDermott: South Florida Water Management. Mike Couzzo: We ... and ... we do that now and if I can get them to come in, we'll do that up to and not to exceeding $10,000 so we don't have the bid problem and then we'll see what their performance is so that you'll be able to look at what... it - Mayor Bender: That's... that's Mike Couzzo: ...bringing in temporary people... Mayor Bender: ...all right. Mike_Couzzo: ...what their performance and what's the bid. Mayor, Bender: I'll fly with that. Mike Co,Uzzo: You'll have three options. City Council Workshop Meeting 9/27/93/KJ Page 19 Mayor Sender: I ... I ... I'll fly with that. C/M Schreiber: The... the... the only problem with that it'll be... it'll be like a contractor's got three jobs. He starts one, leaves it and in the middle goes to the second and continues. Mike Couzzo: No. They're gonna work with us. QZM Sr_hreibe He ... he may work one day and... C/M Abramowitz: Joe... C/M Schreiber: ...and never come back. C/M Abramowitz: ...Joe, he will not. that Board. He will not do that. Mike Couzzo: Ev... C/M Abramowitz: Take my word for it. I happen to be Chairman of Mike Couzzo: ...even if they were to do that, that it still ... it would be a complement to what we're currently doing. It would expedite... C/M Schreiber: It would speed up the process. Mike Cg_U= : ...the process. Mayor Bead r: Yes, that's right. We'll be able to bring that back as another option. Mauer Be6dj,r: I ... I ... I think that's a good idea. To speed up __thti , that * s ... Mike Couzzo: We'll do that right away. Is ... do I have a consensus if that's the way... C/M Abramowitz: Oh, I would fly with that. C/M Schreiber: If you feel it's worthwhile, go ahead. Mike Couzzo: I think so. I think so. Dina McDermott: Mr. Mayor, so... let me clarify so that we're all on the same page. First thing we're gonna do is contract with South Florida Water Management District for temporary assistance not to exceed $10,000. The second thing is that we're gonna look at the cost for expanding the program with City employees and simultaneously go out for bid for chemical intervention. Mayor Bender: Right, absolutely. C/M Abramowitz: With one change, if I may, when you say, "Up to $10,00011, if what he's doing proves very satisfactory, okay, I would like you to let him know that you would like it based on, you know, based on ... on... C/M Schreiber: You tell 'em it's an experimental program. Yeah ... that's right. Mike Couzzo: The other... C/M Abramowitz: Exactly. Mike Couzzo: ...the other thing is once you let him... C/M Abramowitz: Right. City Council Workshop Meeting 9/27/93/KJ Page 20 Mike S'ouzzo: ...like this, up to the $10,000, when he gives you his number in a couple of weeks, or whatever, he's going to give you a real true assessment from being in the water. C/M Abramowitz: Okay. Mike Couzzo: And, he'll give you another professional opinion. V/Ni_Katz: The other side of that is that the City Manager can expend up to $10,000 without City Council approval. If it exceeds $10,000, they have to come to City Council who is not arbitrarily gonna withhold permission to expend the funds. Dina McDermott: Okay? Mayor Bender: Okay. I ... are we all on board on this? Okay ... uh... any other ... uh... VIM -Katz: Providing we have the funds. Mayor Bender: Yeah.. C/M Abramowitz: We'll do some creative financing. Maaygr Bender: Is there any other ... uh...items you want to talk about? Nothing. Hearing none, it's now a 9:45 a.m. Meeting is adjourned. CAROL A. EVANS - CITY CLERKS