HomeMy WebLinkAbout1984-02-02 - City Commission Workshop Meeting Minutes5811 NORTHWEST 88TH AVENUE TAMARAC, FLORIDA 33321
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MAIL REPLY TO: .January 31, 1984
P.O. BOX 25010
TAMARAC. FLORIDA 33320
TT n m T 0 V
WORKSHOP METING
CITY COUNCIL
There will be a special workshop of the City Council at 8:30 A.M.
on Thursday, February 2, 1984 in the West Conference Room at City
Hall.
The purpose of the meeting is to discuss matters relating to the
proposed new City Hall and Police Station, as well as the referendum
on these matters scheduled for March 13, 1984.
The Public is encouraged to attend.
Carol A. Evans
Assistant City Clerk
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CITY OF TAMARAC, FLORIDA
WORKSHOP MEETING
FEBRUARY 2, 1984
Tape CALL TO ORDER: Mayor Walter W. Falck called the meeting to
1 order on Thursday, February 2, 1984 in the West Conference
Room at 8:30 A.M.
ROLL CALL: PRESENT: Mayor Walter W. Falck
Vice Mayor Helen Massaro
Councilman Philip B. Kravitz
Councilman David E. Krantz
Councilman Jack Stelzer
ALSO PRESENT: City Manager, Laura Z. Stuurmans
City Attorney, Jon M. Henning
City Planner, Richard Rubin
Administrative Aide to the City Manager,
Lee Browne
Secretary, Roslyn Brauner
Mayor Falck read the Notice of the Special Meeting into the
record concerning the proposed new City Hall and Police
Station and referendum on these matters scheduled for
March 13, 1984.
City Manager Laura Stuurmans stated that mr. Conrad Kwok
is here today to present the site plan for Site B, which
has been prepared by Miller & Meier.
Mr. Kwok displayed for Council, a rough draft of a site plan
for the Commercial Boulevard site. He explained that at the
present time, there is a median cut approximately 700 feet
from 88 Avenue, which is proposed to be used as the main
entrance to the site. The buildings would be placed on the
right and left hand sides of the visitors' parking area,
to allow for entrance from the east and the west.
Mr. Kwok indicated on the site plan, the parking areas for
employees, Police Department and City owned vehicles,and
said this would reflect a buildout of the City to the year
2000, or a population of 75,000.
C/M Krantz inquired about the
said the lot is approximately
is 10.6 acres in its entirety,
Building.
size of the site; and Mr. Kwok
1,500 feet by 300 feet, which
including the Public Works
V/M Massaro inquired about the number of parking spaces there
would be for the City Hall alone; and Mr. Kwok stated there
would be 110 spaces for employees, 26 spaces for visitors and
28 spaces for City owned vehicles.
Mr. Kwok distributed to Council, a listing of the pros and cons
of both sites, which was prepared by Miller & Meier.
C/M Krantz asked whether the concept plans are the same
for both locations; and Mr. Kwok explained that Miller & Meier
have prepared a site plan to reflect the general size of the
buildings.
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C/M Kravitz said in the conclusions it is stated that either
site would be suitable, but it would be to the City's
financial advantage to use the 88 Avenue site; and he
would like to know what those financial benefits would be.
Mr. Kwok said he understands the City owns both these sites
and it would be to the financial advantage of the City to
sell the property on Commercial Boulevard and use the proceeds
to construct the complex on 88 Avenue. In addition to that,
the Site A property was donated to the City to use as a park or
for City use, and it cannot be sold.
C/M Stelzer asked if there is enough space on the site for
the Public Works Department; and City Manager Stuurmans said
it was the intention to remove the Public Works Department
from the site.
C/M Stelzer said if a decision is made to use Site B for the
new municipal complex, the City would have to make it clear
to the public that the Public Works Department would be removed
from the site. He mentioned that this is not shown on the site plan.
Mr. Sydney Stein, resident, said the Public Works Department
would have to be removed if the City,decides to sell the property.
V/M Massaro said if Site B is used, the City would have to buy
land for a new Public Works building, and that would have to
be accomplished before construction is started.
C/M Stelzer asked,if the City decides to keep the Public Works
Department on the site in order to avoid going to referendum for
a new site, how that could be accomplished.
Mr. Kwok explained that the present site plan is designed for
the buildout of the City to the year 2000 for a'population of
75,000. Therefore, if the complex is built for a population
of only 50,000, which is projected for the year 1990, some of
the parking spaces could be eliminated to allow for a Public
Works building.
V/M Massaro said the City wants to build a complex it would
be proud of and does not want the Public Works Department
on the site to spoil the appearance of the complex.
C/M Stelzer said if the Citv decides to remove the Public
Works Department, the public must be informed as to the
cost of buying land and building a new Public Works building,
after which a referendum would be required. He said it is
too late to go to referendum this year for that purpose.
City Attorney Henning stated that the City could go to referendum
in September or October for the new Public Works building.
C/M Stelzer asked when construction will begin on the new
complex; and the City Manager said the schedule has projected
that construction will begin in September.
Mr. Stein commented that if the Public Works building is
not removed, the City can use the site until the year 1990.
V/M Massaro said the people in the area have been tolerant
of the present appearance of the property because the
City promised them the Public Works Department will be
removed and is only on the site temporarily.
Mr. Stein mentioned the Public Works Department would have
to be removed regardless of the site chosen.
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C/M Stelzer said eventually the City could remove the Public
Works building and sell the entire site; and that is what Mr.
Kwok was referring to when he said it would be to the City's
financial advantage to select Site A.
C/M Krantz said consideration should be given to the traffic
impact on Commercial Boulevard. He mentioned that the Sunrise
Musical Theater is about one mile west of 88 Avenue and
thousands of cars impact the road whenever there is an attraction
at the theater. In addition, the Tamarac Jewish Center generates
heavy traffic in both directions on a daily basis; and therefore,
a traffic problem would be created if the Commercial Boulevard site is
selected for the new municipal complex.
V/M_Massaro commented that the Saw Grass Expressway will have
an exit at that point.
City Attorney Henning inquired about the number of parking
spaces on the current City Hall Site; and Mr. Kwok said there
are 156 parking spaces on the site, and there is presently a
need for 192 spaces.
C/M Stelzer asked about the number of parking spaces on Site B
for the Police Department; and Mr. Kwok said there would be 89
spaces for employees of the department, 10 for visitors and 88
for City owned vehicles.
C/M Stelzer commented that if there is overflow parking at the
City Hall building, there would not be much chance of
utilizing the parking spaces at the Police Department area.
Mr. Henning said if a Community Center is built, he is assuming
it would be located on the corner of the site; and Mr. Kwok said
that could be done if the Public Works building is removed.
Mr. Richard Rubin, City Planner, pointed out that the Community.
Center could be built at the opposite end of the site, if
everything is shifted down. He said this would be more desirable
as the Community Center would then be away from the major
intersection.
C/M Stelzer said that would require the immediate removal
of the Public Works building, and the City does not have
a referendum to build a new Public Works building at the present
time.
Mr. Henning asked if there is a possibility of placing a traffic
light at the entrance; and the Vice Mayor said it would be
absolutely necessary to have a traffic light at that point.
Mr. Kwok said from his experience at the Atlantic Vocational
School, he found that if a traffic light would be within 1,000
feet of the next one, the City would have to apply for permission
ftom the State. However, if it is more than 1,000 feet from the
next traffic light, it could be done without a problem.
Mr. Henning asked about the distance from the corner to the
point where the traffic light would be required; and Mr. Kwok
said it is about 700 or 800 feet from the corner. He mentioned
that this is a State road, for which the requirements differ
from those for a County road.
The City Manager said the best use of.Site B would dictate
the removal of the Public Works building at this time.
V/M Massaro said the City cannot present something to the
public which they themselves do not approve; and C/M Stelzer
said it would be up to the public to make that decision.
The Vice Mayor said if the City presents this to the public,
the City is stating it is felt to be logical,and using
Site B would not be logical.
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Mr. Sydney Stein said he feels the plan should be revised to
show the removal of the Public Works building. If a referendum
is required, it can be done in September or October since
construction is intended to begin in September.
Mrs. Stuurmans said the plan should reflect this and it
should be indicated to the public that a referendum will be
required in the Fall.
C/M Kravitz pointed out that Council never discussed the cost of
a new Public Works building or where it should be located.
However, it is now indicated that the removal of
Public Works building is anticipated.
City Manager Stuurmans said the experts agree that it is necessary
to move the buildings on the site up to 88 Avenue which would
require the removal of the Public Works building when construction
begins. She said in addition, if Site B is chosen by the public,
it is her thought that the Public Safety building should be lo-
cated on the corner for best access to emergency calls. She
said the Public Works building is portable and could be moved
temporarily to another site.
Mr. Stein said it is anticipated to remove the Public Works
building if the property is sold.
V/M Massaro commented that this corner is the most valuable
portion of the property.
C/M Stelzer stated before this is presented to the public, the
City should determine where the Public Works building should be
located and how much it would cost, so this information could be
provided to the public.
V/M Massaro said it does not make sense to build the complex
on Site B; and C/M Stelzer said the public would have to make
that decision.
V/M Massaro said the public must be told how much money the City
would lose if Site B is chosen for the complex.
City Manager Stuurmans said Miller & PZeier have indicated
their conclusion to be that the complex should be built on the
88 Avenue site.
C/M Stelzer stated that the public must be told if they choose
Site B, the Public Works building would have to be moved and a new
site chosen.
C/M Krantz said the public should be informed that regardless
of the site chosen, the Public Works building must be removed.
Mrs. Melanie Reynolds, resident, said that originally, the
Public Works building was part of the complex and she would like
to know why it cannot be included in the complex at this time.
She mentioned that the City never intended to build a Community
Center on that site.
The Vice Mayor said things change with time, and this situation
has changed.
C/M Stelzer said it was not previously mentioned that the Public
Works building should be removed; and the City Manager explained
that when this facility was placed on the site, it was stated to be
a temporary situation and.that is why the building is portable.
V/14 Massaro said the City would have placed a permanent building
on the site if the intention was for it to remain there.
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The Vice Mayor said the City would be breaking faith with
the people if the Public Works building were located
anywhere on that site, as they were promised it would be
removed.
The Vice Mayor asked Mr. Stein about the feelings of the
Charter Board; and Mr. Stein said in order to clear the record,
the residents of the City should decide where the municipal
complex should be built. lie said the Charter Board did not
state a preference and never made a recommendation. They feel
only that the record should be cleared and the public
should make the choice.
The City Manager said when this matter was discussed with the
Bond Counsel, they agreed it would be helpful to clear the
record. If this is not approved at a referendum, then the effect
is that this clears any idea that this
was to be a public facility.
V/M Massaro said she is in favor of clearing the record, but
she is also in favor of the removal of the Public Works
building as otherwise, the City is breaking faith with the residents
who would have no say in this because they are in the minority
in an election.
C/M Stelzer said the people who are opposing this want the
Public Works building to be part of the complex and do not
want a Community Center on this property. He said the City
should show the people how that can be done, and allow them
to make the decision.
Mr. Stein stated that even the people who are talking about
the Commercial Boulevard site as being their preference, are
not referring to the Public Works building, as it has been
mentioned many times that the present building is an eyesore.
It would be ridiculous to keep the Public Works building
adjoining a beautiful, new municipal complex. He said he
thinks it would be fair to tell the public that if they
choose Site B, the PHblic Works building will be moved and
a referendum would be required in September for that purpose.
He said he feels this is the correct and honest way to present
this to the public.
C/M Stelzer said his suggestion was to make two plans, one
with the Public Works building on the site, and one without
the Public Works building.
V/M Massaro said that would confuse the people.
City Planner Dick Rubin said when the Public Works building
was originally built, the cost to the City was between $35,000.00
and $50,000.00. He said a building of this type was recently
completed in Cooper City which is 800 square feet larger than
Tamarac's building, and cutting every dollar possible, the
cost was $225,000.00 to $240,000.00.
V/M Massaro stated that if the new municipal complex is
built on Site A, the City would not have to touch the Public
Works building. until it is readv to be sold.
She said the City is not ready to sell the property at this
time, because it would be appropriate to wait until the most
money could be received for the land.
C/M Stelzer mentioned that once the Saw Grass Expressway is
located at this point, the property will become more valuable.
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V/M Massaro said the City could rezone the property to
gain the most from it and be the least offensive to everyone.
C/M Stelzer said he is wondering how much money it would
cost to buy the land necessary for a Public Works building;
and the Vice Mayor said the City has been told it would cost
approximately $13,000.00 per acre.
Mr. Rubin said four to five acres would be required for a
new Public Works building.
The Vice Mayor said the City Charter states that the City
cannot just go out and buy land and that complicated the
matter in the past. She said in addition, there was a
reluctance to buy land until it was known how much property
would be taken by the Saw Grass Expressway.
C/M Stelzer asked if the City has obtained an appraisal
of the Commercial Boulevard property; and City
Manager Stuurmans said there is an appraiser working on
this currently.
The Vice Mayor said in her opinion, conservatively speaking,
the property on Commercial Boulevard is worth two to two and a
half million dollars.
City Attorney Henning said 'the ballot states
that the electors are picking either Site A or Site B.
They are not picking a particular site plan, and therefore,
regardless of the site chosen, the site plan is subject to
revision. He said that is the legal aspect of this. However,
if a site plan is to be used for public presentation,there
should be something close to what the City is intending to do.
He said from what he has heard, the corner is the prime
location and there should be a site plan to show the Police
Department at the corner if that is the best traffic access.
He said the City is not bound by the site plan, but if it
is to be used in public presentation, it should show the site
with the Public Works building removed.
C/M Stelzer said the public must be informed about the money
the City would lose from the sale of the property if the
Public Works building were to remain on the site. In addition,
they must be told what the cost would be for a new Public
Works building, as well as the cost of buying the land for it.
Mr. John Dunne, resident, said he feels the only logical location
for the municipal complex would be at the 88 Avenue site. He
said there is more property at that location and it would
provide for additional parking facilities. He said he feels
the Commercial Boulevard site would not provide sufficient
parking facilities.
Mayor Falck stated that it has been said it would discriminate
against the people residing in the eastern portion of the City,
to place the municipal complex on the 88 Avenue site.
fie said he feels this is not true because McNab Road leads to
the fire house in much less time than it takes to come through
Commercial Boulevard. fie said secondly, the people residing
in Mainlands can reach the 88 Avenue site easily by Rock
Island Road or 81 Avenue. He said as far as the bus is concerned,
it can be rerouted. The Mayor said he sees no logical
reason to spend money to build a complex on Commercial Boulevard
when there is a far better area to build it on for much less money.
He said in addition to that, there is the matter of the Saw Grass
Expressway, which will dump an additional heavy load of traffic
on Commercial Boulevard and therefore, the City would have an
obsolete complex before it is built.
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C/M Stelzer asked whether it is intended the City Hall be
two stories;and Mr. Kwok said it is.
Mayor Falck suggested this item be placed on the agenda for
Wednesday, at which time an official vote can be taken. He
said most important of all is that the public must be informed
as to the cost of buying land and moving the Public Works
Department. .
City Attorney Henning said he is assuming that when a rough
draft of the brochure is available, it will be presented to
Council before it is printed. He said staff is now working
on the brochure.
V/M Massaro said when the brochure is available, she feels
there should be a special meeting.
C/M Stelzer asked when Council will discuss public presentations;
and the City Manager said she feels it would be appropriate for
Council to decide today who would be responsible for the pre
sentation to the public. She said there have been staff dis-
cussions about the brochure as well as a slide presentation
that is being prepared. In addition, there are a group of
speakers the.City can call upon as needed, such as representatives
of Miller & Meier and Williams,Hatfield & Stoner. Mrs. Stuurmans
said staff has also asked C/M Stelzer and C/M Krantz to be
available, but other Councilmembers who are engaged in daily
activities and running for election have not been approached.
She said the first presentation date is scheduled for the morning
or afternoon, or both, of February 13, here in City Hall.
V/M Massaro said before presentations are made, she feels the
brochure should have already been mailed so the public can
read it.
Mrs. Stuurmans said the February 13 presentation will be made
to the civic leaders such as the Presidents of the sections,
the Directors of associations, etc.
V./M Massaro said if the City spends money to send the proper
information to the residents, it should be done before any one
else starts to make presentations as she feels people tend to
present their own opinions.
Mr. Rubin said the brochure will go to the public first, but the
purpose of the February 13 presentation is to educate the leaders
of the community, so they can answer questions raised by residents.
Mayor Falck said it is intended this be a dry run, and he feels
it should be.
The Vice Mayor said thought must be given to the matter of who
will be responsible for these presentations before a decision is made.
Mayor Falck said this can be done on Wednesday and everything
should be in order at that time, so the presentation can be
made after Wednesday.
C/M Kravitz said when he made the Motion and Amended it, it was
his intention this be handled by staff only and now a statement
was made that two Councilmembers will be involved. C/M Kravitz
said he objects to that and feels staff is capable.
The Mayor said this will be discussed on Wednesday.
A resident asked the difference between the presentation prepared
by the Police Department and the one being prepared by staff
since a presentation is scheduled for Tamarac Lakes South on
March 4 and he is wondering whether the two presentations will
conflict with each other.
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City Attorney Henning said the Police Department has prepared a
videotape showing the need for additional space. He said this has
not yet been discussed with the Police Chief, but he feels pre-
sentations scheduled after February 13 should be discussed with
people who want presentations after that date, as to whether the
City could exchange the presentation staff prepared which will
include Police, City Hall and Utilities, with the videotape pre-
sentation that was scheduled. Iie said staff would compare both
presentations to determine which is more informative.
V/M Massaro said it might be a good idea to combine the material
from the Police videotape with the staff presentation.
Mayor Falck suggested the City Manager prepare an outline, to be
considered by Council at the Wednesday meeting; and Mrs. Stuurmans
said a draft of the fact sheet will be available for Council at that time
The Mayor said he is in favor of the Police Department giving their
Point of view as it relates to their need for space,as he feels
it will help to sell the program to the public. However, if the two
presentations can be combined, he feels it might be a good idea.
Mr. Henning explained the Police have a videotape presentation and
staff is preparing a slide presentation. These are different mediums
and different projectors are used and it would be difficult to
combine them. He said Council will see everything that goes out
to the public.
C/M Stelzer mentioned since February 13 is the target date for the
presentation, it might be a good idea to publicize it at all Board
meetings from now on; and the Vice Mayor said the City Manager has
indicated the date might have to be changed.
City Manager Stuurmans said she is not comfortable with the February 13
date; and C/M Stelzer said this could be done with any date selected.
He said for example, the Presidents Council is scheduled to meet on
Tuesday and an announcement can be made at that time. Mrs. Stuurmans
said the Presidents Council was invited for February 13 but that
might have to be rescheduled.
C/M Stelzer said Council could request an invitation be extended to
the public at all Board meetings, and in that way, the City would
be able to reach a good cross-section of Tamarac.
The City Manager said if there is standing room only, an atmosphere
is created that is not conducive to anyone's attention span and
therefore, she feels the number of people should be limited to the
approximate seating capacity. It will be suggested at the meeting
that meetings be arranged in the field or if a group does not have
the facilities, they can come to City Hall.
C/M Stelzer inquired whether the wastewater facility would be included
in the same presentation; and Mr. Henning said it would.
THE MEETING WAS ADJOURNED AT 9:45 A.M.
ASSISTANT CITY CLERK
This public document was promulgated at a cost of $70.50 or $1.91 per
copy to inform the general public and public officers and employees
about recent opinions and considerations by the Council of the City
of Tamarac.
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