HomeMy WebLinkAbout1984-02-10 - City Commission Workshop Meeting Minutes58'1 1 NORTHWEST 88TH AVENUE 0 TAMARAC, FLORIDA 33321
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NOTICE OF WORKSHOP MEETING
CITY COUNCIL OF TAMARAC, FLORIDA
There will be a Workshop Meeting of the city council on Friday,
February 10, 1984 at 1:30 P.M. in Council Charnbersat City Hall,
5811 N. W. 88th Avenue, Tamarac.
The subject of the Meeting is the recreation facility at Tamarac
Park with a presentation by, and discussion with, the City Planner.
The Public is encouraged to attend.
Carol A. Evans
Assistant City Clerk
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Councii wW-, respect t) any ln�_)r
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CITY OF TAMARAC, FLORIDA
CALL TO ORDER
olW- Veriii�ll
CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP MEETING
FEBRUARY 10, 1984
RECREATIONAL FACILITY AT TAMARAC PARK
Mayor Falck called the meeting to order at 1:30 P.M. on Friday,
February 10, 1984, at 1:30 P.M.
PRESENT: Mayor Walter W. Falck
Vice Mayor Helen Massaro
Councilman Philip Kravitz
Councilman David Krantz
Councilman .lack Stelzer
ALSO PRESENT: City Manager Laura Stuurmans
Consultant City Attorney Alan Ruf
City Planner, Richard Rubin
Recreation Director Sharon Ellis
Mayor Falck read the official call of the Meeting. The subject of the meeting was
a presentation by, and discussion with, the City Planner.
Richard Rubin, City Planner, noted that a month and a half ago Council instructed
him to complete the working drawings of a structure to be placed in Tamarac Park.
He said the name of the structure was agreed upon, and it is to be called Tamarac
Park Recreation Center. The program as approved by Council calls for a building
6800 square feet, with certain items included in the program. Mr. Rubin showed
the working drawings which comprise ten or twelve drawings, and they are substantially
complete. The architect who worked with Mr. Rubin was present at the meeting to
answer any questions on items of special interest. Mr. Rubin pointed out that they
are almost ready to finalize the plumbing and electrical diagrams and specifying the
materials, etc.
The City Planner commented that two weeks prior to the meeting information was received
from members of the Recreation Committee about their concerns regarding the build-
ing. Mr. Rubin said he has tried to understand the concerns and see if they could fit
into the program for construction that was originally authorized by Council. Mr.Rubin
discussed the Man Council had authorized. The original plan contemplated the building
parallel to University Drive, facing the road, almost expanding from one lane in the
parking lot to the other, with the concession stand to the south of the proposed building.
The City Planner said inside the building the program was for the offices on the second
floor, large open area on the second floor to serve the senior citizens and also for
meetings of the various City Boards. Downstairs, the initial plans showed a large
open recreation area, enclosed and air-conditioned; with storage on the north end. The
City Planner said the only changesthat occurred subsequent to Council's approval of
the drawings was that the South Florida Building Code requires toilets in the structure
so they were placed on the ground floor. In addition it was felt that the second
floor should be provided with an attractive entrance, rather than utilitarian stairs.
The standard stairway would be kept as a second stairway for security and safety
purposes.
Doug Christy, Chairman of the Parks & Recreation Board, said that they recognize
that the Board is advisory to the Council, and he said that the Board is somewhat
disappointed in the development of the plans as far as not including the members of
the Parks & Recreation Board in that planning. He commented that when they last
left the item it was at Council Meeting a month and a half ago when, having received
input from the Board, preliminary drawings were presented and Council approved them
and requested that Mr. Rubin return in a short period of time with final drawings.
Mr. Christy said the present presentation of the plans is the first time the Parks &
Recreation Board have had an opportunity to see the plans. He said he knew a great
deal of input has been given to the City Planner by other interested parties in
recreation and other members of the Board, and possibly members of Council, as to how
the building should be designed. He noted that the purpose of the Workshop is so that
all of the interested parties can get together and make decisions as to bow the
structure will be built.
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Mr. Christy expressed the concerns of the Board with reference to the location of the
building and its effect on some of the existing equipment; access to the second floor by
handicapped individuals if it is to be a two-story building; the condition and appro-
priateness of keeping the existing rest -room and recreation facilities. He said a
meeting was held the previous week with members of the Board and members of the Athletic
Federation. At that time they discussed the proposal and agreement was reached with
members of that group., Those recommendations were discussed again at the monthly
meeting of the Parks & Recreation. Board and a concensus was reached. Up to that point
no working drawing were seen. Mr. Christy said what he sees on the drawing at the
present time is different than what was originally given to Council.
Vice Mayor Massaro said the recommendations made by the Parks & Recreation Board was
$85,000, above what could be spent and if the facility is not within the budget that
the City is allowed to spend under the Charter, they are spinning their wheels. Mr.
Christy said if the figures hold true, that is correct. Vice Mayor Massaro said that
she is sure Mr. Rubin presented figures that are reasonable and within what can be
done, that is his job and the City has to depend on what he presents. She noted that
the City wants the best they can get for the money and the best that can be provided
within the amount the City is allowed to spend. Vice Mayor Massaro commented if
it can be shown the figures are not correct, there is no point in arbitrarily saying
they would like to have something that does not fit within the budget, which would be
a waste of time.
Councilman Kravitz said he understands that the Vice Mayor is stating only a certain
amount of money can be spent without going to referendum, He commented that nothing
precludessaying if it was to be accepted it would have to go to referendums, if the
aTmunt is higher.
Norman Karr, Park Commissioner, explained that the building the Recreation Board
envisions is not going to take up any more space or be any larger than the building
proposed by the City Planner. The only difference is that certain aspects will be
transferred from the first floor to the second floor, and there is no change in the
structural size of the building, the only additional thing could be an elevator which
would be in the neighborhood of $25,000. Mr. Karr noted the elevator could be put in
later. Mr. Karr said he could not see any difference in cost between putting the
office on the first floor or the second floor. The size of the structure would remain
the same. Mr. Karr pointed out that the location of the building would take away the
Tot Lot which was put in with various pieces of equipment which would go from age to
age so that the children could use it, and that would be broken up. He said it would
not cost any more to Trove the building six or ten feet away. Mr. Karr said he would
appreciate being shown where the cost would be greater.
The City Planner said the basic program, a 68,000 square foot building was computed to
be approximately $200,000. to $215,000. maximum cost. The cost given to him to work
with was $220,000. or $32.00 a square foot. He said the 68,000 square feet would not
include an elevator, which would be approximately $25,000. and that would be $25,000.
over budget. if the concession stand is removed it will cost mmraney, and to construct
a new concession stand in the building will also cost money. Mr. Rubin said if you
start at maximum, every dollar put in will exceed it. Mr. Rubin said the choices are
to stay with it as it is, or go to referendum or reduce time size of the building. He
said if the size is reduced they can not utilize the open areas, and he could not go
along with that recommendation.
Councilman Kravitz inquired if it would be possible to get a grant for an elevator.
Mr. Rubin said not under the grants available at the present time. He noted if the City
was an economically deprived area he felt a grant could be found from the Community
Block Grant of Broward County; this area of Broward County has not been found eligible
for that.
Mayor Falck said the Focal Point Center in Margate recently contracted for an elevator
from the first to second floor. Grant possibilities were explored and turned down;
he noted the elevator cost was $45,000. and not $25,000. Doug Christy explained the
idea of the elevator came about solely for access to the second floor by handicapped per-
sons. Mr. Christy said by not allowing access to recreational activities to handicapped
individuals, it could have an effect on future grants
Mr. Christy said he felt they should establish what the priorities are, he said the
Parks & Recreation Board felt strongly about access to the handicapped being a priority.
and if that meant reducing the size of a meeting room, that would be fine. With regard
to demolition of the existing refreshment stand, Mr. Christy said he felt it could be
done cheaper than proposed.
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Mr. Christy said the reason the demolition of the refreshment stand was recommended
is partly to allow the building to sit in that area and save the tot lot, and also
the Tamarac Athletic Federation indicated that the bathrooms are in terrible condition
and the existing concession area is larger than they need. Mr. Christy said that
three -fourths of the existing facility is practically worthless, and they recommend
leveling the building and using that area as the corner where the new building would
sit. That would allow them to save the tot lot.
Mayor Falck said they can go out to referendum, and do it that way. Vice Mayor Massaro
said it would be too late, and it would never be built. The Mayor said they started
to do something, and he had understood there was general agreement, and now that they
are ready to develop the specifications the whole matter has changed.
Vice Mayor Massaro commented that she was surprised at Mr. Christy's statement that
when everything was approved in the beginning and the Recreation Board agreed with
the general concept of what was to be done, and it was assigned to Mr. Rubin and his
firm, that Mr. Christy would think the City was paying for architectural plans for
the Board to decide at that time what they would like. She said the first meeting
was for that purpose. Mr. Christy said the Board met twice with the City Planner,
prior to their getting approval to go ahead, pending.the final working plans. He
said he understood input from a variety of sources was given to the City Planner,
including the City Manager's.request that the Planner not attend the meeting the
previous Thursday, and the purpose of the present Workshop is to clear the air.
Mayor Falck stated that the Workshop is to try to get some kind of understanding,
the understanding was that a facility would be built at the Park, and it was thought
by Council to be generally accepted. He commented that he began to hear that Mr. Rubin
is hearing from people about significant changes in the plans, he felt it was time
to clear the air, and that was the reason for the Workshop.
Matt Lyons said that he has spoken to a couple of builders on the matter. He asked Mr.
Rubin where he obtained his figures, Mr. Rubin said the basic costs for the building
were initially computed by himself based on other projects. The Building Official
gave the concept drawing to a firm that does computer cost estimates and it came
within $5,000. of the estimate Mr. Rubin had given. Mr. Lyons said he spoke with two
builders and was told if he could give a little more time, they were almost sure they
could bring it in within the cost estimate with their changes and with the elevator,
also. Mr. Lyons said he would like to bring in figures, he also said there is an
architect in the City who would donate his time reference to plans or other needs.
Vice Mayor Massaro noted that it was ruled in the beginning that no recreation rooms
were wanted on a second floor. Mr. Lyons said he felt that the Recreation Director
should not be upstairs.
Bob Curcio, member of the Tamarac Athletic Federation said that he was present at
the meeting held with the Parks and Recreation Department on February 2nd. He said
at that meeting they were presented with a blueprint of what the Council had approved
in the building. He said that building was within the guidelines of the allocated
money. Mr. Curcio said he had been told the price presented by the City Planner
is adding on a concession stand, which was not asked for, he said they asked that the
Concession stand be placed in a corner of the building. He noted that the elevator
was only because of the handicapped, it was felt the Code would require an elevator.
Mr. Curcio said they simply moved the proposed building to where the refreshment stand
is, and that was the only expense added to the price of the building. Vice Mayor Massaro
said it was definitely decided that the recreation facilities would be downstairs, she
noted that another City had these facilities upstairs and it was a catastrophe. Mr.
Curcio said they only changed the offices, and the PA system would be put in a corner
room.
Mollie Goldstein noted that Mr. Rubin had worked diligently on his plans, but as a resi-
dent of the City and member of the PR Board, she had questions. She said Mr. Rubin
should have consulted with the Committee to hear what their needs are, and get the
input from the Committee. Mrs. Goldstein suggested getting a volunteer architect
who is familiar with recreation. Reference to provisions for handicapped, Mrs. Goldstein
pointed out that is necessary to be able to apply for a grant. Mrs. Goldstein noted
that the bathroom facilities are disgraceful, and that there are no provisions for the
handicapped. With reference to the second floor she said the Committee never saw the
plans. Mrs. Goldstein also noted that the input from the Committee was ignored. She
also questioned costs.
Mr. Rubin said that the Building Official had checked out the South Florida Building Code,
and determined a bathroom facility should be downstairs, also there would be ramps and
wider doors downstairs, the building would provide total handicap accessfor all areas
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on the ground floor. Mr. Rubin stated the ground floor will meet all requirements
for the handicapped on the ground floor. Further, the Concession Plan is shown
on the drawing, it is the present building. Mrs. Goldstein said their plan was to
raze that building. Mr. Rubin commented that there is not enough money to raze the
building. Mr. Rubin said reference to the new concession stand in the building will
necessitate redoing the plumbing, sewer, water, electrical, new fixtures and new
kitchen equipment, which is the reason for the $9,000. cost. He said the program
received from the Recreation Board would put more square footage on the second floor
than the ground floor and therefore is a more expensive area. He said if the area
could be equalized it'would bring cost down. For the cost of the elevator, he compared
it to a recently completed building and that is where the cost came from. Mr. Lyons
questioned the cost of the concession area, he said it was not suggested it be added
to the main building, but that it be part of the main building. Mr. Rubin stated
that cost would be reduced in that case. Mr. Lyons disputed the cost of leveling the
concession stand, Mr. Rubin said the costs were based on Cooper City having done the
same thing.
Mr. Rubin stated that with an equal amount of space on the first and second floor, the
only major cost would be the new elevator and the concession stand.
Councilman Stelzer asked why a six passenger elevator would be needed on the exterior
of the building, Mr. Rubin said that is the minimums requirement. Doug Christy said
the reasoning for the elevator was for the handicapped to have access to the second.
floor. Mr. Christy said the Recreation Board has always had the idea of a rectangular
two-story building, and they had recommended some offices on one floor and some on the
other. He said the City Planner took all of the second floor items and added square
footage. Mr. Christy said they had always worked with the idea of a 6000 square foot
building rather than a 6800 square foot building. Mr. Christy said many of the cost
overruns would have been eliminated if the City Planner had discussed them with the
Recreation Board, Mr. Christy said the Board is advisory, and what is ultimately
built is up to Council.
TAPE Councilman Kravitz commented that at the two meetings that were held by the Recreation
#2 Board it was suggested by the Committee that the building be called Tamarac Park &
Recreation Center. He said the purpose of the building was that during the day,
during school session it would be used for adult classes and meetings, and the
building used during after school hours and weekends for youth activities and sports
and meetings. That would incorporate both the young and the adults. Councilman.
Kravitz recommended that since the Recreation Director knows the needs of the City,
that they go along with the request of not orlly the Committee, but the Parks and Rec-
reation Director. Tf the building will not meet the requirements that are needed
or wanted, it would not be good. He said if it means referendum, so be it; but they
should not put up a building that will not meet the purpose. Councilman Kravitz
recommended going back to the Committee for reconsideration and have the Parks &
Recreation Director give her reasons why it: would not serve the purpose to do it any
other way than recommended by the Committee.
Mayor Falck said at least 50% of the use would be community, Councilman Kravitz said
on page 8 of the report of the Parks & Recreation Committee it states; The building
must not have the word "Community" in the title. That was a recommendation of the
Committee. On page 9 the Committee makes recommendations for requirements. He noted
that these are not his recommendations, but the Committee's recommendations and the
only recommendation he makes is that the Parks & Recreation Director should be given
consideration.
Councilman Stelzer noted if they go ahead with the recommendation of Parks and Recreation
it will cost well over the anticipated amount. He said the only alternative is to go
to referendum. Councilman Stelzer stated if they wish to put up a building that will
suit the recreation department he is not against it, they would have to go to referendum
and that would drag it on for years. Mr. Curcio stated teat the Committee's recommen-
dation is that the top and bottom floor be the same size, and he indicated the cost
can be reduced to the 225,000. figure by taking out the cost of the elevator and the
cost of the additional square feet, plus the 9,000 dollars (concession stand).
Vice Mayor Massaro said it seemed to her the Parks & Recreation Department are not
concerned enough with leaving enough space for the youth, which is the primary reason
for building the facility. She also said the downstairs needed more height for
recreation, Mr. Rubin said that is 101
.
Sharon Ellis, Recreation Director said the Committee does not wish to confuse the
building with the future Community Center, and that is the reason for leaving the
word "Community Center" out of the title of the building. She said they want
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the people of Tamarac to understand that this is not the final facility, but it is
basically for the youth of the Comity and it will be placed at a location that is
convenient to the youth. Mrs. Ellis said they are all trying to get to the same point,
and that is to build a facility in the time they have, that will best serve the
Community. Mrs. Ellis explained the reason the people are at the Workshop is because
they are concerned about the handicapped, she pointed that there is a handicapped person
on her Staff, and getting up and down steps is difficult. She suggested looking into
an elevator that would be used only for handicapped persons and locked when not in use.
Mrs. Ellis said Staff made reference to being uncomfortable at night being upstairs,
and a buzzer system might be installed, however she said children running by would
cause the buzzer to activate. She said the reason it was recommended to have the
Senior Citizens use the facility in the daytime is because it would be senseless to
have it vacant. She said she had done research on the handicapped issue, and she
asked the Assistant City Attorney if he had any material on the State Statute requirement
for the facility. She said that the Committee does not want anyone coming back to them
and saying they did not do their homework or research. Mrs. Ellis say they strongly
recommended a ramp, and Mr.. Rubin said there is not room for a ramp, and it is impossible
to put an elevator in. She asked if it could be added on later.
Councilman Stelzer said according to Mr. Rubin's plan there could be a recreation hall
downstairs and a meeting room upstairs, and the building be within the budget. Sub-
sequently if it was desired to put an elevator in, it could be done at that time.
Vice Mayor Massaro said originally when the plan was authorized to be built it was
said it would be called the "Park & Recreation Satellite Center" in order not to
confuse it with the community center. She said they never discussed calling it a
"Community Center". Mr. Rubin agreed, and he said he saw no problem calling it Tamarac
Park & Recreation Center.
Mr. Curcio commented that the extra space of the overhang which the Committee did not
recommend would cost $93,440. Therefore if they go back to the footage of the
square building it would be $93,400. less, and ninus the $9,000. for the concession
stand and the cost of the elevator, the building can be built within the budget that
was previously approved.
Councilman Stelzer said the meeting rooms and rec hall cannot be on the same. floor.
Mr. Curcio said the location of the rooms is up to the Council, but the size of the
building is within. the Council Budget. The City Planner said if Council will
authorize several things, there is a solution. He suggested keeping the same structure
and put in a future location for an elevator, it would meet budget. Mr. Rubin said the
Council will have to address the concession stand. If Council wants it remved, then
the building could be moved over and rough plumbing could be provided for the concession
stand.
Vice Mayor Massaro said she realized the toilet facilities are not something to be happy
about, however the children that are outside would not use the facilities in the
building. She said she thought at some time the structure would have to rebuilt with
something better, but not at the present time.. Vice Mayor Massaro said that could be
a separate program, and they should concentrate on the Recreation Building program in
order to make it a reality. It was never contemplated to put the concession stand
inside the building.
Mr. Norman Karr said the problem of where the facilities are to be located has not
been addressed. He said Sharon Ellis suggested the offices be downstairs for the
ease of people coming to register for various events and for the safety and security
of the employees. He said he could not see how that would add cost to the building.
Mr. Karr said a far larger recreation area would be gained. Vice Mayor Massaro said
it was not desirable to have the recreation area on the second floor.
Councilman Stelzer suggested the City Planner and Recreation Department Committee get
together to see if something can be worked out that will be functional.
Vice Mayor Massaro questioned having an office on the first floor. Sharon Ellis said
the plans originally had three offices. The City Planner said there is a storage room
downstairs, one bathroom and room for a nice -sized office. Vice Mayor..Massaro said
something like that could be worked out without taking away from the recreation room.
The City Planner agreed that the storage area could be upstairs where the office was,
so there would be no change in square footage. Mr. Curcio questioned what type of
things would be stored on the second floor, it might not be feasible to have it on
the second floor.
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Vice Mayor Massaro said they may have to increase the size of the building downstairs.
A storage room could not be upstairs. She said that the recreation room must be dovm-
stairs.
Matt Lyons questioned if he were to build a two-story building in the City, what the
requirements for the handicapped would be. Vice Mayor Massaro said that is different,
Mr. Lyons said it is not, and many people want to volunteer and can't. Vice Mayor
Massaro said perhaps they can have an office downstairs, and then it would not be
necessary at the present time for the handicapped to go upstairs. She pointed out
they are not saying eventually it will be a good thing, they are trying to find a
way to come up with a usable building and stay within the amount of money. When the
City can spend extra money as a separate program, the elevator could be put in. Vice
Mayor Massaro said they would otherwise have to go to Referendum. She also pointed
out going to bid would require time, and if the new Charter Amendment passes there
will be no way to build the building.
The City Planner said he would like permission to work with the Recreation Board to
look at the interior allocation of space, and not for chanping design of the structure
or discussions of the concession stand, but to look at the inside space. Vice Mayor
Massaro said she could see nothing wrong with that. Mayor Falck said he had never
discussed changes in the concession stand. The Mayor said that he thouzht the matter_
was resolved a,,year ago. Doug Christv questioned if he could assume Council would have no
objection to leaving the concession stand where it is, and they recognize it probably
will cause the loss of some of the equipment in the Tot Lot. Vice Mayor Massaro said
she did not think it would do that, the Mayor agreed with her. The Vice Mayor said
it may require relocation of the Tot Lot, but it can be relocated in the same manner
as it is now. She pointed out there is a large green area that is not utilized at
the present time where it can be located. The City Planner noted the entrance gates
should face the parking lot.
Councilman Kravitz said he will go back to the Committee and bring a report to Council
as quickly as possible.
The City Planner said they will work on the plans during the weekend to come up with
tracing paper alternatives that should be ready the beginning of the week.
There was no further discussion, and the Workshop adjourned at 2:50 P.M.
41 . Z_X�
ASSISTANT CITY CLERK
This public document was promulgated at a cost of $ 7J F0 , or $ � A, 0
per copy, to inform the general public and public officers and employees about
recent opinions and considerations by the City Council of the City of Tamarac.
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