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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1980-04-11 - City Commission Workshop Meeting Minutes5811 NORTHWEST 88TH AVENUE 0 TAMARAC, FLORIDA 33321 a TELEPHONE (305) 722-5900 April 4, 1980 CITY OF TAMARAC CITY COUNCIL NOTICE'OF.-WORKSHOP MEETING The Tamarac City Council will hold a Workshop Meeting on Friday, April 11, 1980, at 10:30 A.M., in Council Chambers on the First Floor. The following items will be discussed: Item #1 - Fire Department Personnel Needs for Balance of Fiscal Year- 1979/80. Item #2 - Pre -Budget Review of Personnel Needs of Fire Department for Fiscal Year 1980/81. Council may consider such other business as may come before it. All interested citizens are invited to attend. MARILYN BERTHOLF City Clerk mb/tz CITY OF TAMARAC, FLORIDA CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP MEETING APRIL 11, 1980 RE: FIRE DEPARTMENT PERSONNEL ROLL CALL: CALL TO ORDER: PRESENT: ABSENT AND EXCUSED: ALSO PRESENT: Mayor W. Falck C/W Kelch C/M Zemel C/M Disraelly V/M Massaro E. Gross, City Mgr. Carol Evans, Asst. City Clerk B. Simon, Fire Chief Mayor Falck called the meeting to order stating that this was a Workshop, City of Tamarac, City Council Notice, workshop Meeting, Tamarac City Council, Friday, April 11, 1980 at 10:30 A.M. in Council Chambers and said the following items will be discussed: 1) Fire Department personnel needs for balance of fiscal year 1979-80. 2) Pre -budget review of personnel needs of Fire Department for fiscal year 1980-81. Mr. Ed Gross, City'Manager indicated that this meeting has to do with two areas, first being the needs of the day, and secondly to help the Fire Chief prepare his budget for the next fiscal year. He said that the Fire Department was built using federal funding to start with and Mr. Simon, during the past five years, has built a Fire Department which we can all be proud of. Mr. Gross said that we are getting ready to open up our second station and when they began their budget over a year ago, they had looked at the growth of Tamarac at that time, and since they have had very heavy building over the last year, there was a change in the building from a CBS major construction to a varied construction, a lot of it using a great deal of wood and other inflammable or more inflammable type of materials. For this reason, Mr. Simon had to readjust some of his thinking as to his manpower needs. Mr. Gross further believes that with the memo received from his office this morning, and Mr. Simon's report, Option #3 should be implemented immediately so that the areas can be protected by the two fire stations. C/M Disraelly referred to the ladders and asked Mr. Simon how many other stations have ladders equal to that. Mr. Simon replied that none of them have. C/M Disraelly asked how many other citie s can get up to 85 feet, take care of a 3-story building, etc., and Mr. Simon replied in the immediate area of 4; Margate, N. Lauderdale, Lauderhill and Lauderdale Lakes. C/M Disraelly referred to the original plan that was presented to them at the budget of last year, September 30th past, mentioning that there were 17 men aboard, giving them a minimum of 3 men at Station 1 and that on October lst 5 men were added, giving them 22 men, an average of a little over 5 and wanted those figures clarified by Mr. Simon. Mr. Simon replied that it gave the department 5 at that point and as of May 1st, two more men, which gives us 24 men, making 6 shift men and which would leave 4 men at Station #1 and 2 men permanently at Station #2. -1- April 11, 1980 /pe C/M Disraelly asked Mr. Simon it he is asking for 3 men permanently minimum at Station 2 and Mr. Simon replied in the affirmative and C/M Disraelly further said that they are talk- ing minimums, because there are times probably that Station #1 goes up to 5 or 6 men. Mr. Simon said sure and that the two men were offered with acceptability of a cross -trained cop that would perform as a fire fighter. He went on to say that since the budget was submitted, basic requirements for an involved single family house is a 4 man crew, and they have had a couple of test cases on it; the 4 men just about make it where every function is completely used at a medium size fire in a one family house. C/M Disraelly asked that when Bailey Road goes out to a single family fire, do a minimum of 4 men go out and Mr. Simon replied that he didn't know as there was no way for him to tell. C/M Disraelly asked Mr. Simon if his proposal was not to go into cross -trained officers. Mr. Gross said that what happened at this point is that the cross -trained positions are working and both chiefs seem to be satisfied with them at this point. He stated that unfortun- ately because of the reduction of manpower in the Police Depart- ment, they have had to have lesser training for them than the Fire Chief would recommend, and these men have had to be used more on patrol areas than we wanted to do to start with, and for that reason we have not been able to get them completely trained as fast as we originally wanted to. C/M Disraelly said that before they get through with the decisions of what we are going to do with the Fire Department in the budget of next year, one shouldn't be handled without the other and Mr. Gross replied that for the budget of next year, they will be doing the Fire Department this year, not the budget itself, and we will be giving direction now at the latter part of the meeting. C/M Disraelly mentioned that it was proposed last year that the method of handling both the Fire and Police Departments was to have cross -trained officers and asked Mr. Gross if they were changing their minds now about cross -trained officers. Mr. Gross stated that they were not changing their minds but that it is taking them longer than they had anticipated. C/M Disraelly referred to his memo which mentioned to transfer 4 of the cross -trained officers to the Fire Department and take them out of the Police Department, and Mr. Gross answered that this was correct, because they feel that with the length of time involved and the immediate needs of the Fire Deparment, that the staff would be better used in that area. C/M Disraelly asked what happened to the police patrol that is involved and Mr. Gross replied that the reasoning for that as stated in his memo, is that they feel they have enough police patrol now with the fact that they are no longer using any policemen in outside agencies. C/M Disraelly asked that if they didn't use these men in outside agencies and we cross - trained them, would it be only a matter of 6 weeks to cross - train them. Mr. Gross answered no, that the total amount of training is a lot more than 6 weeks; that 6 weeks is the school- ing only and it takes some time to get into the school, then there's a substantial amount of training once they get out of the school. Mr. Simon said that they are instructed in the basics in school, then they have to learn their techniques, their way of doing things, which takes a couple of months, stating further that they have not had the training periods yet to fully evaluate the system. C/M Disraelly asked if the men he wants to take out of the Police budget and put in the Fire budget will still have to go to school for the 6 week period and Mr. Gross replied that not all of them would, but they hope to get as many certified firemen as they can. -2- April 11, 1980 /pe C/M Disraelly discussed the changing programs and Mr. Gross answered that they want to continue that program in the future with police and firemen, but at the present time, Mr. Simon feels the immediate need is very important, and that things have changed since t•he,budget and a larger staff is needed than originally planned. C/M Disraelly mentioned that there are certain areas of the city indicated in Mr. Simon's report -that are covered by Bailey Road consisting of 700 to 1000 units and asked if there would be any manner of getting a contract with the county. Mr. Gross replied that the county at this point does not feel there is any reason to contract the service out to anybody because they feel they adequately cover the area. C/M Disraelly called attention to the fact that Bailey Road does not have a ladder and Mr. Simon replied that they cannot service the Gate, Woodland Meadows, The Mansions and Banyan Lakes which are two- story buildings. Mr. Gross said they have reciprocal agreements with other cities which call in their equipment immediately and C/M Disraelly stated that he is projecting the thought that this is a station that is located immediately adjacent to all of this unincorporated area, and he thinks it should be researched, since they may be able to pick up $25,000 a year from the county. Mr. Gross replied that the hook and ladder truck wouldn't be in there and the North Lauderdale ladder truck is within the same distance, probably even closer, than our ladder truck is, and C/M Disraelly said not closer to The Gate. Mr. Gross reoorted;'yes, it's off Rock Island Road and Rock Island Road just opened up"and Mr. Disraelly said it is still north and we are east of them. C/W Kelch said that the hook and ladder truck isn't going to be at Station #2, but will be stationed at Station #1 and Mr. Disraelly said he still thinks we could service The Gate from that area and thinks it should be explored. Mr. Gross said they have already discussed that with them and they felt that they did not wish to let go of any funds at the present time, and that they adequately covered those areas. Mayor Falck asked about the reference to east of N.W. 31st Avenue and wanted to know how much of that $12,000 would be attributed to the proposal again in Option 1 and that if you go this route, are you eliminating the $12,000 contract service or the area east of 31, and Mr. Simon replied with a yes. Mayor Falck stated that he had two feelings on this; one is that he doesn't feel that they can go into that with them until such time as Commercial Boulevard is completed due to traffic proble ns, and secondly, if they did go into that, that Lakes 1 and 2 still be under the county operation as that's a little bit too far away from us he thought. Mr. Simon said it was 3 miles and a fraction from that station and then discussed the possibility of an automatic aid contract where we would respond to certain areas of Gateway that is highly industrial, and they would in turn respond to the same area that was mentioned, Lakes 1 and 2; we would be the back-up unit so he would still have the potential of two pumpers on every structural fire regardless of whether it is Tamarac or North Andrews. C/W Kelch said that in other words, the fire station location was never intended, from it's inception, to service any area beyond that and it worries me that we are even consider- ing it at this time. She asked if they had changes of thought on that and would it actually include just the Boulevard. -3- April 11, 1980 /pe J Mr. Simon answered C/W Kelch by saying that it would include the Boulevard completely and the east end of the city on this option. He further mentioned the school for thought on that would be backed up by the Broward County Land Use Plan which states "First Due Engine shall be within 3 miles", and we would be in full compliance because of the improvement in Commercial Boulevard when it is finished. C/W Kelch asked if it would extend to 21st Avenue.or to Prospect Road and Mr. Simon replied, all the way to 16th Avenue. The Chief said that at the present time he has units here that will back up everything of a structural fire in any area, whether it is covered by Broward Central, which is North Andrews, or Bailey Road. He went on to say that they do ride on them, particularly if they are tied up or if they are working someplace else, rather than to find out if they are exactly going and we start in all areas. C/W Kelch asked if they find that they are needed, or is it just one of those things and the Chief replied that there have been a couple of cases where in her section where they came in and his way of fighting a fire was not exactly the way other people would. The City Manager said, for example, if a call comes in to C/W Kelch's section or Treehouse, for instance, the engine from house #1 automatically goes to the Turnpike and stops there, and then they wait to be called in if needed; they don't go all the way, but if they are needed, they are called in immediately and they have been called in. Mr. Simon then said they usually give us a quick call on the radio if it is not necessary to respond. C/W Kelch stated that we have increased our commercial installations, but she still has qualms about the portion that is now being covered by Andrews. The Chief replied that because we are involved in some type of mutual aid, and because we have asked for it more times than they have asked us, he feels that it is a reciprocal moral obligation that if they can help, they will, but they still have to provide a minimum degree of pro- tection in the city, our city, and it has worked out pretty well. The Chief said that they are going into a thing that they call box alarm cards, where certain areas we are assigned even outside the city, because the reciprocity would be on a fire such as Sunshine Plaza, he would automatically get other units when he would call for a second alarm. He said they would automatically come in on the announcement that a second alarm was in progress in this area. C/W Kelch asked on a, second alarm fire if the entire safety department is involved and if they had to have police officers for traffic control. Mr. Simon replied that they have never had any trouble along that line, as far as the Police Department is concerned. C/W Kelch further questioned the Chief on whether it brings other police departments in or other juris- dictions and he replied no. C/W Kelch mentioned that we would have to figure that if we were working out of a box arrangement on a reciprocal basis, this would also require the additional services of both safety departments involved and the Chief said it really hasn't come up yet. C/W Kelch said they are speaking specifi.cally today of personnel in his department, and do they have to figure that these things overlap and when we enter into something that is an agreement, do they have to provide all facilities to follow through on it. Chief Simon said that basically past performance has been that they recall the police, and usually you end up with an adequate number to establish fire lines, provide protection for property, etc. -4- April 11, 1980 C/M Disraelly 4 firefighters would want them as soon as asked if it would be 6 months before these come aboard and Mr. Gross answered they they can get them. C/M Disraelly asked if that meant that next year without any changes of any other sort, the budget would go up $56,000, and Mr. Gross answered, not really, because the Police Depart- ment budget will come down. C/M Disraelly discussed that the _. Fire Department budget will go up $56,000 and thenin the Police Department there would be a determination as to whether they need more men because of the growth of the city and the expan- sion to the west again. Mr. Gross said that also they are talking about more men in the Fire Department and C/M Disraelly asked if that would be on top of these. Mr. Gross answered that was correct and that would be what the rest of this meeting will be about. C/M Disraelly asked if just to do what we are doing now, will it cost us $56,000 next year, plus or minus. The City Manager said that was correct, but was not in addition to what it would have cost us if we had hired the 5 men in the Police Department. He further said there will be no additional cost city wide next year for these 5 people that would not have been there already in the Police Department. He said there were originally 5 men in the Police Department and if we put them on this year, we would have to pay them next year. C/M Disraelly commented that we may need more policemen next year and Mr. Gross concurred. Mayor Falck asked if they hired them this year, would they continue them next year and the City Manager said that is correct. Mayor Falck said he personn.ally has no objection to going on the option that they are talking about with the transfer where they are not going to spend any additional money. He further said that he would be opposed and shares C/W Kelch's feeling that he doesn't think that we ought to be terminating this contract with North Andrews for those people who are east of 441 until we have enough information to make us feel comfortable. Mayor Falck then discussed the construction that would be taking place on Commercial, Prospect and Dixie. The City Manager asked that his recommendation on Page 3 be agendized for Monday so that it can be passed by the Council. A discrepancy in the budget was discussed by C/W Kelch and Mr. Gross and C/M Disraelly indicated that the City Manager had informed them that they were below staff at the present time because some senior man had left and they were hiring juniors at a lower rate, but there was $3000 in excess funds in the salary range at the present time and asked if that was correct and Mr. Gross concurred. C/W Kelch discussed that the people had expressed that they want protection and need protection and went on to say that if they are willing to settle for the Chief's absolute minimum option, then she has to be reassured that they are really looking at a safe procedure and that they are not jeopardizing any of the things that the people are hoping for in taking this on. The City Manager said that the Chief will have to answer that, but he wanted to say that the second part of this meeting will be on his office'sfurther recommendations to be included in the budget next year. Mr. Simon said he would start with Option 1 and thinks he 214M April 11, 1980 /pe The City Manager mentioned that we don't have the same type of reciprocity because of state laws with the Police Department that we do with the Fire Departments and if we had a problem, we would be calling in the Sheriff's Department because they would have jurisdiction. He also said that Lauderhill policemen would not have jurisdiction in the Tamarac area, and he is just like any other citizen, and their liability problems are very high, so we call our own men in the Police Department first, and secondly we can call the Sheriff's Dept. C/W Kelch asked if they would be called in first and Mr. Gross said no, that our backup people would be called in first. C/M Disraelly brought up agreements between cities and Mr. Gross said they are working on that right now and that Mr. Birken just reviewed an agreement Monday or Tuesday of this week. Mayor Falck asked how many people specifically are they talking about in order to get the fire house opened now and the Chief asked which option the Mayor was referring to. Mr. Gross said that it was Option #3 which was recommended in his report this morning. C/M Disraelly discussed the City Manager's recommendation which is employment of 4 public service fire people as of 5/1 and the deletion of.the 4 of the 5 cross --trained officers from the Police Department budget and transfer that budget to the Fire Department; funds are taken from the Police Department and put into the Fire Department. Mayor Falck mentioned the figure of $27,180.00 and C/M Disraelly said the Chief is talking about $28,000.00. Mr. Gross stated that was to give it the protection that Mr. Simon feels needs to be given in order to feel that the station can be run adequately. C/M Disraelly then stated that this will make it 4 and 3 a n d"when we made up the budget, it was 4 and 2. C/W Kelch asked if there will be no additional outside people employed and the City Manager replied that those are new positions; they are new people. He said that the Police Depart- ment had positions available and they are transferring those positions to the Fire Department; they still have to go outside to get the people. C/W Kelch said she understands then that they are actually new employees. Mayor Falck clarified by saying that instead of for the Police, you're getting them for the Fire Department and Mr. Gross stated that was correct. C/W Kelch questioned recommendation B in Option 3, "hire two fire fighters scheduled to be hired on June 1st on May lst," and asked if that is in addition to these other 4. Mr. Gross said that was right. C/M Disraelly asked, in other words, if they have to hire 4 people to get 1 man on shift. C/W Kelch said no, that she just wanted it clearly understood that they were getting 2 men besides these people. The Chief told the Council that they hired 2 yesterday, are hiring 4 more and are talking about 4 more. Mr. Gross concurred with the Chief. Mayor Falck asked if the total effect on the budget would be nil and the City Manager said that is correct and actually they will have some extra dollars left over in the Police Depart- ment because the salaries for firemen alone is lesser than what it would be for the policemen. C/M Disraelly asked if they anticipate hiring any more men and Mr. Gross answered that there would be one more person for the balance of this budget year in the Police Department. -5- April 11, 1980 /pe I can explain his feelings as he goes along. He said that Option #1 would give them definite participation in mutual aid con- tracts and he would never he short of manpower for that, at least he didn't think he would. He went on to say that as far as the ability to eliminate the North Andrews contract, that would still be in effect by a no cost automatic aid agreement with North Andrews, as that would still come in there from their station on Powerline Road and the aerial use would always be manned and we would start to have the potential of handling two simultaneous fires, with this option of 10 men on duty at all times. He continued on saying that it will also establish a very good basis, ratio of .fire fighters per 1000 people to go into all the future expansion of this city and hopefully he would try to cut that ration down as the city got to around 60 or 70 thousand people, with cost effective saving manpower methods and still give this degree of protection, which he thinks is a pretty good degree of protection. He said all of it involves a certain risk, as you couldn't put a fire truck in front of every house, but he said that would definitely be an acceptable risk. Mr. Simon continued on, saying that Option 2 is similar to where our limiting factor would be our reciprocal mutual aid contract and we could get -in a position where we would be cur- tailed at certain times, but not all the time. Then, he went on to say, we would not have the chance to cover the city east of 31st Avenue on the same basis as he said, as a no cost auto- matic aid program would be, because our part of the reciprocity would be to respond outside the city in Broward Central's area to cover that, and we would not have the manpower to send a relocated unit from this Station #1 to Station #2 to cover that area. Mayor Falck asked if Mr. Simon was on Option 2 and Mr. Simon answered yes and that they are taking a little more of a calculated degree of risk on the thing, but in his opinion, would still be an acceptable degree of risk. He said we have the same problem with the aerial ladder. He said they could go .into a modification between Option 1 and 2, a 9 man crew,.and maybe put one man on and it would be a slight disadvantage to have one man drive the rig as versus two men driving it. Mr. Simon said he thinks Option 3 is an acceptable calculated degree of risk, and that the job could be done on this basis, and that it is being based on very strick quali- fications from the cross -trained police officer. Mayor Falck asked that on Option 3, the area east of 441, do we still have in effect the agreement with the fire operation at the Executive to back us up in support too. Mr. Gross answered that this was signed about 2 years ago, and that there is no ending date on it. Mayor Falck indicated that there was a fire in his particular section, and believes there have been 4 fires in the Boulevard Section during the past 10 years, and in at least two of those there were units from Executive over to his place first. He said that during a very large fire, 3 units appeared on the scene which didn't do a darn thing and then a little dinky came up and they were the ones who went to work on it. He further asked whether or not we still had that kind of relationship with Executive as they were always willing to participate. The Mayor indicated that in their plan, they are going to put in additional units at Executive Airport because of the industrial site just west of them that is now being built and also because of the big industrial tract on the west side of 31st where the Lakes and the concrete company are. The Chief explained that in one of Ft. Lauderdale's assignment cards, they have a Tamarac unit responding on one, which wouldn't be part of that mutual aid contract for pay and that they definitely have a Tamarac unit card on that. -7- April 11, 1980 /pe I- -... L- .-.--J Mayor Falck mentioned that in'view of the comments made by the Chief, it would seem to him that in order to get the operation going, they should take Option 3 when it is called up for consideration on Monday. He indicated that an awful lot more consideration needs to be given to the 1980-81 budget, but he does not have that much concern based on the chief's assurance that it was an acceptable alternative, and he thinks that this is where we ought to start from a personal observation. Mr. Gross asked that his motion on Page 3 be agendized for Monday for the Council's consideration, and suggested that they go on to the next item. C/W Kelch asked if there will be manpower in our station over there and the City Manager replied that we are hoping to have it by May 1st, but possibly not until May 15 and adver- tisements are going in today. C/W Kelch discussed that when this opens, are they transferring 2 or 3 trained personnel and C/M Disraelly answered that there will be 5 there. C/W Kelch indicated that she is worried in case someone over there was sick and why are we being so stingy about this thing. She then mentioned that we are eliminating Bailey Road and wanted to know if that was figured into the budget. Mr. Gross indicated that the second part of the discussion will be on future needs and that the Chief feels Option 1 is needed, a 10 man complete crew on duty at all times, which means you need 3 additional men on each shift, a minimum of 12 people and'C/M Disraelly corrected the City Manager, by saying, a total of 15. Mr. Simon indicated that he was figuring on Option 1 and went through most of our cities in Florida and also went through. professional magazines wherein they advertise a Chief's job. Usually stated are the population, the budget and the number of fire department employees and when they give them 3 figures, he is able to obtain the ratio of fire fighters per thousand people plus per capita costs, a simple one dividing our population into the fire department budget. He stated that this is used univer- sally. He had gone through 50 cities, but discussed just a few: Largo, Florida 1.54 Firemen Gainesville, Florida 1.6 Firemen Dunedin, Florida 1.38 Firemen He further stated that rather than go through the whole thing, he could go to the national average which he made on Page 14 on the graph in the last page of the book or next to the last page. He is giving us three bar graphs on the national average, which is 1.81. to what he was looking for and it is actually a little less than 1.26 per thousand people and our present is .71 thousand. With a ratio like that, next year's planning is done for Us. Mr. Simon went on to say that we can find the city increases in population by the number of CO's issued for residential units and we come up with a pretty reasonable figure of 2.2 people on it. He said that could be the basis of not increasing taxes, because we are going to get additional taxes from the people in there, and it would still keep us low after reviewing the options. Option 1, the most expensive, would be 1.23 fire fighters per thousand which you don't have on that page. Option 2 would be one firefighter per thousand and Option 3 would be .89 firefighter per thousand and the per capita cost would range, at the present time, $14.66, the lowest of all of these cities. He said the most expensive under Option 1, would be $17.84 down to $15.43 for Option 3. Mr. Simon said with the Option 1 recommended, this would allow the Fire Department to go all the way up to full development of the city, which he is figuring at $73,000 accord- ing to the Land Use Plan. -8- April 11, 1980 /pe L Mayor Falck said that actually you are not planning on increasing the staff in Firehouse #2 because they are filled up and it is not going to grow; where is it going to grow to, as it is grown up already. The Mayor indicated that the growth from here on through is out at Station #1, which was a question to Mr. Simon. Chief Simon discussed the fact that he was entertaining the idea of what they call a mini --max concept and that would be possibly be two units coming in, a min and a max and nothing coming from Station #1, as Station #1 would more or less be tied up with full development here. C/M Disraelly questioned the actuarial experience which should come into focus here as well as what happens up in Dunedin and any other place. Chief Simon said he has it right down here. C/M Disraelly asked how many times have we been short of people and equipment and since he is talking about a potential of 2 or 3 fires at one time, what is our actuarial experience in how many fires at any given moment. He mentioned that we have a different type of city than some of these others are as to type of construction and type of people who are living here. The City Manager stated that the Chief can give us those figures, but not at the present time. They know how many times they have to call people in to replace people who are out sick, etc., and they definitely know how many fires they have had where there are two fire calls at the same time and C/M Disraelly retorted that he was referring to that. Mr. Gross said that one of the things the Chief was worried about in his discussion with him, was the fact that there has been a tremendous change in the type of construction in the city; buildings on the east side are almost all concrete, brick and stucco, buildings on the west side used to be that way, but if one goes to the Woodmont area now, and see the newer buildings now going up over here by Lennar and Heftler Homes and observe that the second floors are now becoming wood structures -- there is a lot of extra wood, and therefore the chances of fires are that much more involved type of fires since the concrete, brick and stucco fire basically holds the fire within a room for a longer period of time. He mentioned that this is one of the reasons why he feels that at this point he is making a complete change in technically what he thought was needed in the western part of Tamarac. C/M Disraelly asked that when Lennar comes in with 2 and 3 story buildings if they are going to be wood frame and Mr. Gross answered that we don't know at this point, we only know what is going up now. C/M Disraelly said let's find out first and also find out what is happening before we say these are going to be wood structures. He then said he is not fight- ing this, but just wants the facts so that they don't say these are going to be wood structure; we need 14 men, and then they become concrete buildings, and we don't need the men. Mr. Gross said what the Chief is asking for at this point, is from what he sees is being built today. C/M Disraelly indicated that they are talking in platitudes and what we should net down to is not how many men they have elsewhere, or what the percentage is, but what do we need. He then stated that they have to look at dollars and he wants pro- tection. When they use $108,000 to hire 16 men, they are talking 5 months, 12 months and that becomes $250,000. -9- April 11, 1980 /pe The Chief asked if they thought he would ever leave them in a vulnerable position to be falsely accused of spend- ing people's money, when he is giving it to them that even at the highest option, they would still be lower than every- thing they went into as far as other taxpayers. He said that without mentioning the name of the city, almost a similar population, a better geography, meaning that it is a rectangle instead of the shape Tamarac is, with 3 times as many firemen, more stations, evaluated by the same outside agency, they come out with double his budget, but still come out with a Class 5 city. C/M Disraelly replied that they got rated class 5 with this rating and that he has pretty good well -trained men, and the Chief replied that he is getting the maximum out of what their potential is. C/M Disraelly said he still would like actuarial figures and the Chief said this is his way of approaching it and he is doing that right now,plus he is giving them the potential if the ratio is kept per thousand. C/M Disraelly asked the Chief if he wants these men right now without areas 5 and 6 being undeveloped and the Chief replied yes, because he is talking percentage and if you go into ratio, it's a percentage. The City Manager said the tough thing with a Fire Department is to prove need because of the fact that the only time a fireman is needed, is when a fire takes place. C/M Disraelly said that is why he is trying to get back to actuarial figures and Mayor Falck agreed-C/M Disraelly said we had been fortunate since we have handled it with a 4 man station minimum and have had as many as 9 men, 6 men, 7 men. He also said that maybe 4 isn't enough, but whether we should go from 4 to 6 because we are going to build up to 80,000 in 3 years or 5 years from now, that has to be considered as well. Mr. Gross said he doesn't believe, unless he is mistaken, that when the Chief asked for additional men, he is not looking for them to be the top of the department when we have 80,000 people. C/M Disraelly asked if we need to go from 4 to 6 based on our experience and that we've had no problem at this moment. The Chief replied that we did and C/M Disraelly asked when. The Chief stated that he thinks he has a little more rate of injuries than he should have and C/M Disraelly said he hadn't indicated that up to this point. Chief Simon stated that what is in the back of his mind and the Assistant Chief's mind, is that they go to a fire with 2 engines as was done the other night in Heathgate. The first engine goes right in and used that so-called booster tank water with line; the next one comes in and stretches a supply from a hydrant. Now they have 2 engines tied up and then what are they going to do for the next fire coming along. They must stop what they are doing, get the fire under control, and switch the lines from that first engine to the second engine because the second engine came in, they are all stretched out with the hose, and they are not serviceable to go to another. The first one in has nothing but 3 connected hosesthat takes maybe 10 minutes to put back and then in that interim period they don't have anything to cover the city. They can't rely on mutual aid, because it's a big time element to come in here. C/M Disraelly asked the Chief how many times he has had two fires in the last year and Chief Simon replied that he didn't think it was required of him to give them that off the top of his head and said he doesn't even have it in his 5 year records. He said that he has had calls come in simultaneously several times. -10- April 11, 1980 \ /pe i L- - C/M Disraelly stated that what he was trying to get at is when the Chief says there could be a second fire, there could be a third one too and we are not providing for that. Chief Simon said he could remember twice the exact houses and C/M Disraelly asked was it last year, with Chief Simon responding with a yes. C/M Zemel said his prime interest at this time is really not how many fires we have had, for we have had multiple fires at the same time, but could it happen and when. From his point of view, the fire department must be prepared for a multiple fire, which will happen one time, and that one time may be where we have mortalities because we couldn't service, so he is open to being very liberal as to what they have to offer to the fire service. C/W Kelch stated that the people want protection and they are willing to pay for it, and this is no place to economize even if they are playingtiddley:-winks 90% of the time; when the emergency occurs,she wants to have sufficient personnel and sufficient equipment and the proper location of the equipment to handle it. She said that the people that come into our city where either manufacturing is a possibility in the area that we have set aside for that in the land use plan, or commercial developments which we have throughout the area, these people need protection, and it concerns the life and safety of our people and those that will be employed, and those who will be consumers in areas that aren't even figured remotely into our population. C/W Kelch said she thinks it would be a very bad policy to try to economize in this branch and she would go for the maximum. Chief Simon said he believes his first obligation is a fire suppression system for the limited amount of fires that occur and his next obligation is to provide the maximum productivity while he is still covering this thing suppression wise. He indicated that the maximum productivity according to America Burning which was published in 1973, are established in fire departments and every dollar that is spent on suppression is not as good as the dollar spent on fire prevention. They are getting to the state where they have some type of adequate fire suppression system, but at the same time, he would challenge any department in the United States as to productivity of this Tamarac Fire Department. He mentioned that they have come in with site plan reviews, are making that bigger and bigger and are coming in with recommendations which they had cause to hear which were not adhered to. Chief Simon further stated that they are not in the position where they have a building code to enforce. He said that if there is a 200 pound building inspector, he can't get up into a 30 inch roof attic space, but he has some guys that do and they are telling us, and these are the things that are going to be cash profit to a fire department. He referred to the roof in Sabal Palms; how many people could get up there to inspect whether it was afire hazard if it had openings in it. In other words, these are the fire protection features that were originally supposed to be built into the building. C/M Disraelly indicated that all he was interested in was what we need or are we overexpanding based on 1985. He said we don't have the population here yet that the Chief is talk- ing about. C/M Zemel asked the Chief if we do inspections and issue permits for commercial enterprises that have inflammable materials and the Chief answered in the affirmative. C/M Zemel asked if we issue a license and collect license fees and the Chief answered that the Fire Department doesn't, but they are doing it in conjunction with our Certificate of Occupancy and Occupational Licenses from the Building Department. -11- April 11, 1980 /pe 77 C/M Zemel asked the Chief if that was one time, when they first go in and the Chief answered yes. C/M Zemel then asked how about each succeeding year and the Chief replied no, that they didn't have the mechanism, but that actually our Fire Prevention Code that was adopted in 1975 calls for a permit and if we want to put a fee on it, it would be up to the Council to establish what the fee basis would be. C/M Zemel further questioned the Chief as to whether he has ever known any city that didn't have a license and annual licensing and annual fee for commerical enterprises that have inflammable materials, ie. places that use kerosene, cleaning fluid, gasoline, etc. Chief Simon replied that others do have a fee. C/M Zemel asked that when the Chief goes for the original inspection for the CO and sees that everything is fine, and they provide for safety for inflammable materials, is that the end of it, and then the place could become a real fire trap and we wouldn't know the difference. Chief Simon stated that we still inspect them annually; every commercial and multiple dwelling is inspected once a year, a minimum of once a year, unless it is a hazardous type of building and then we go in more often. C/M Zemel asked if he is powered to issue citations and the Chief answered with a yes and that the Code of City Ordinances,CHapter 10 adopts the A1A Code, stating further that he has a ruling from the City Attorney stating how he would issue a citation. C/M Zemel asked how many citations have been issued this past year and the Chief answered that there were none. The City Manager said that warnings have been issued and the Chief indicated that thousands have been issued. C/M Disraelly asked if they then re -inspect and the Chief said yes, about 10,000 since they have been there. Mr. Milt Klika dicussed the disastrous fire at Woodmont and he wondered if anything has been done since then where the fire department at the site plan removal can insist on sprinklers even though the provision of the state law, he believes, is 20,000 square feet. Mr. Klika said Woodmont built their place at 19,990 square feet just to get under the requirement. He also asked if the City Council can apply leverage in approving site plans on the recommendation of the Fire Chief that sprinklers should be provided regardless of the square footage. Mr. Gross said that we do lnoxc7 that the Fire Chief is recommending to the Building Department certain changes that he would like to see within the code. Mr. Gross indicated that in designing the new clubhouse at Woodmont, it will be the same type of design, but they are designing sprinkler system and further said that sometimes people have to learn a lesson the hard way. Mr. Klika talked about the trained people in Station #2 and asked if they are going to be trained as far as medical, since there are a lot more heart attacks than we have fires and he wants to know if that station is going to provide that sp-rvzee- te--the re-sidents-__.._ Chief Simon indicated that on each crew they are going to try to have at least one EMT and went on to say that all fire fighters are certified with an advanced first aid ticket; that is part of their basic training, usually about half of them with an EMT, which is 90 hours in Broward and they are state certified. -12- April 11, 1980 /pe Mr. Klika asked if the Holiday Inn, which is about 5 or 6 stories, is getting our protection because of our location being so close or will we get something from the County for protection. Mr. Gross replied that we have a contract with Ft. Lauderdale and if they call us in, we will be getting some money. He also said that North Lauderdale also has a contract with them and if they call North Lauder- dale, they will get money. He explained that we have a contract that we signed approximately 2 years ago that was reciprocal between the two cities. Mr. Klika asked how about Woodland Meadows and those other areas between Shaker Village and Rock Island Road and the Chief replied that this was unincorporated county. Mr. Klika then asked if we have an agreement as to if we will get money from them. Ed Gross replied no, only reciprocal agreements at the present time, although we are working on agreements. Mayor Falck recognized Mr. Carl Alper and Mr. Alper discussed how much of a saving there has been to the citizens of Tamarac in their fire insurance premiums by the upgrading of the Building #1 and the creation of Station #2. Chief Simon replied that it was more than his budget and Mr. Alper said he thinks it is important to let the citizenry know. Chief Simon discussed where the drawback is. He said it's not too difficult on residential, but there is no way, as each commercial building is rated or inspected individually and there is just no way. He discussed the percentages, remembering when it went down 39%, 20% and things like that. He further said that we struck a figure one time of about 15,000 units and we had to put a hypothetical figure on the building and its contents. Carl Alper asked if we can come to a reasonable estimate of what the savings has been by the upgrading and creation and Chief Simon replied yes. Mr. Alper said it might be appropriate to let the people of Tamarac know how much work this Council has done. Mr. Gross said he thinks the Mayor has done it and we had a couple of articles. He further said that each time the rate was lowered, the Mayor was quoted on it. C/M Disraelly asked if the tax rate was $15.00. Mayor Falck replied that he would think so, although he has heard even a higher figure. He thinks one of the things our people ought to do is to shop around a little bit on some of this stuff, because he has heard that some of the carriers are not recognizing the fact that we have had improvement in our class from 8 to 5 . He said that if some company doesn't want to recognize it, they have the phone and there are a lot of places that can be reached. He further felt that if you can save money, money ought to be saved. Chief Simon thanked the council for the interest they have shown and the courtesy extended to him. Mayor Falck ADJOURNED THE MEETING. r ATTEST: r ASSISTANT CITY CLERK This public document was promulgated at a cost of $104.06, or 4.16 per copy, to inform the general public and public officers and employees about recent opinions and considerations by the City Council of the City of Tamarac. -13- April 11, 1980 /pe