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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1986-05-23 - City Commission Workshop Meeting Minutes0 s MAIL REPLY TO: P.O. BOX 25010 TAMARAC, FLORIDA 33320 5811 NORTHWEST 88TH AVENUE TAMARAC, FLORIDA 33321 TELEPHONE (305) 722-5900 NOTICE OF CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP MEETING TAMARAC, FLORIDA May 13, 1986 Please be advised that there will be a City Council Workshop Meeting on Friday, May 23, 1986 at 9:00 A.M. in the Council Chambers of City Hall, 5811 NW 88th Avenue, Tamarac, Florida. The purpose of this workshop meeting is to discuss the contract with the Broward Sheriff's Office for municipal police services. 9 The public is invited to attend. CEB:da r Carol E. Barbuto Assistant City Clerk AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY EMPLOYER POLICY OF NONDISCRIMINATION ON THE BASIS OF HANDICAPPED STATUS MAIL. REPLY TO. P.O. BOX 25010 TAMARAC, F LORIDA 33, Tape CALL TQ QRDER: 1 CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP MEETING FRIDAY, MAY 23, 1286 9:00 A.M. ROLL CALL: PRESENT C/M Gottesman C/M Stelzer C/W Massaro V/M Stein Mayor Hart ALSO -PRESENT: Larry Perretti, City Manager Alan Ruf, Acting City Attorney Frank Etheredge, Finance Director Tracy Smith, Secretary The following is a verbatim transcript as requested by Councilwoman Helen Massaro, Mayor, -Hart: Before we get down to the business at hand, I would like to make a few comments. I said it's a workshop, so most of us come in dressed like we're going to work. The Vice Mayor is wearing a tie this morning, making us look bad, however. V M tein: Excuse me, I took the jacket off. Mayor Hart: We're going to do a lot of listening this morning because as you know Council did not get this until about seven minutes ago and we really haven't had time to study it, but we could follow along as it is explained to us. Then if we have to follow it with an additional workshop, then we'll so do. I'd like to turn this meeting over, .. Oh first I would like to introduce some of the people who have dignified us, if you want to call it, with their presence from the Sheriff's Department. Colonel Werder who is the Executive Assistant to whatever it is, to Sheriff Navarro. Sam Price, who is the attorney for the Sheriff's Department. Bob O'Neill, I think you all know Captain O'Neill and Mike Woodruff whose compiled a lot of these figures. Unless I've missed somebody from the Sheriff's office, my local people you all know. Larry, are you going to make the initial presentation and then we'll ask you. Larry Perretti: Yes. r /ts Page 1 Larry Pe,r,retti: Mr. Mayor and Council I just want to make an opening statement before we get into the agreement for the a police service with the BSO. I'd like to make it very clear to everyone listening, I see there are a number of citizens, as well as the president of the FOP Mike Mell, and other dignitaries out there and I just want to make it clear to everyone that this is a first draft only, that there is nothing to get upset about, pro or con BSO pertaining to this. This is a draft that was drawn up by our City Attorney and the Attorney for the BSO and so consequently we are certainly open to any suggestions from the Council pertaining to the revisiting of this draft, we feel that it is comprehensive. We have looked at a number of other contracts that the BSO has with other cities. We have snitched a little from them and added a little bit and I think it is as comprehensive as we feel it can possibly be on a first draft without really knowing your particular feelings about manpower, the level of staffing, the police facility and different equipment that we would have to that the BSO would have to purchase. So I think I just wanted to make that clear to everyone out in the audience that this is a first draft discussion, there definitely will be a second draft workshop to review this further. Our time table now is to have everything completed by the end of July. By the last meeting in July of the Council we intend to present all this to you for passage so that it can be on the referendum in November. So I just wanted Mr. Mayor to use that as an opening statement. At this particular time I'd like to turn it over to the... C/W Massaro: Ah before Mr. Mayor, before you go on with this, I'd like to make a statement. I think that this is entirely wrong to have this workshop this morning. In view of the fact that we received this material just a few minutes ago we haven't had an opportunity to read it, to absorb it, to try to determine whether it's good, bad, or indifferent, or to study it in depth. This is a very serious and very important subject and has a great deal to do with the future of our City. I don't think that we should be listening to anything on it. I think the first think we should do is to give us time to absorb it, not an half hour, not a day, it should be at least a week that we can too question anything we want from other cities, or whatever we want to do, and then have a workshop. I don't understand how something like this can be thrown at us. Mayor Hart; Councilwoman Massaro if I may say as I said before we just received it. We have to study it and if necessary we'll call it an initial workshop. I can't see where it would hurt that the one's that drew this up explain to us what they've got in there before we sit down and spend the time reading it ourselves, then we will know what questions we want to ask the next time we get together or write down any suggestions we may offer. Being that we don't know anything about it, I think it's good to have the people who drew it up explain to us what they wrote here, that's all the purpose we can accomplish. 9YK Massaro: That's all well and good Mr. Mayor, but I did want to register my protest on the record. Larry P retti: Mr. Mayor at this time I'd like to turn it over to Alan Ruf for some comments pertaining to the draft and then I think that we should hear from Chief McIntosh pertaining to the important subject of staffing. /ts Page 2 Alan Ruf: I would like to start by apologizing for the fact that you did not receive this document. I was here yesterday and I certainly expected that by two or two thirty yesterday afternoon you each member of Council would have had this to look at during the evening hours. Quite frankly I think there are some thresholds of information that needs to be provided to you by our staff that pretty much is outside of the contract itself. I've indicated to you in my memo that I believe that though in order for us to move forward with any certainty and with the BSO to be able to respond with numbers, there are things that we have to look at such as level of staff. There has been a suggestion for some time that we needed to look at police staffing levels. The second thing that we need to look at carefully, and we're not going to have any final answers on this until late in the month of June, is the consequences of a BSO takeover on the City's pension plan. The pension expert from Tallahassee is schedule to be in Tamarac the entire day of June 20th to answer any questions that the Tamarac Officers might have, the trustees of the Tamarac Pension Plan might have and any questions of course that the BSO staff might have. He has scheduled his availability the entire day to meet individually or in workshop sessions. As I understand it, his presentation will be video taped either by our system or the Sheriff's system so that those people that are working during that period of time will have an opportunity to see it. Another element that is very important that we need to be thinking about is the cost of the transference of benefit hours that the officers have to the BSO, and the possibility of a large expenditure to buy back from those Officers accumulated vacation time, sick time and holiday time. I think another item for us to begin thinking about is the police facility, how the police facility will be financed and how the cost of the police facility will be handled in this lease agreeement, in this agreement with BSO. Probably not as important an item but an item will ultimately need to be discussed, is how the BSO will fund the equipment purchase from the City of Tamarac to the contract go through, since the indication or the plan at this point is that if the electors of the City of Tamarac were to approve a BSO involvement in the police activities in the City of Tamarac the operative date would be January 1, 1987. That is in the middle of our budget year and it's in the middle of the County's budget year so there are some things that we need to be talking about. Obviously in order for the electorate to have a comparison of the costs we're going to have either budget for the officers, for the staffing that we hope to put in place January one, or at least know what it would cost for us to handle that. I think that I'd be perfectly willing at any time, either now or at the end of the meeting, to quickly go through each article. I think the level of staffing is probably the most important consideration and if that's all we were to talk about, if that's all we were to get a consensus about today, and we may not even reach a consensus, but if that's all we were to talk about, I think we'd go a long way toward helping your City staff and the BSO to make some kind of reasonable presentation. y/M Stein: I'm glad that Alan brought this up because from the very day that the BSO came back this time, we've had this question. How much is it going to cost? The question always went back, what do you want. I have consistently said that at the moment am I not looking for the savings I'm looking for the necessary men to be put on the street which were not there during this term. If we had to put additional men on the street, we have to pay for them obviously. So first we have to decide how many men have to be on the street and in the Police Department. When we get that set then we can know how much it's going cost for the BSO as how much would it cost us to do, otherwise you're to trying to compare apples and oranges. If you compare what it costs today to run a Police Department which is sixty six men and the proposed Police Department with eighty six men, obviously you're not going to come to any straight answer, you're always going to have an answer that's in question. its v Page 3 y�M Stein: I agree with Alan, we have to at least, I don't think we can come up with a definite answer, but at least narrow the parameters as to how many men we we're talking about,'how many officers we're talking about. How many Captains, how many Lieutenants, because we have more officers than most cities per man on the street. We still want to have that amount or do we want to go back to what the average is with the rest of the cities. Those are the things that we have to get over step one. Once we do that, the size of the facility is probably the least important thing because I think both our Police Department and the Sheriff have come to, pretty close to a number within two hundred feet and I - don't think two hundred square feet is a big factor here. I think the key is how many men do we want and of course the second thing which we can discuss, we can't do much until late in June when the pension man comes out from Tallahassee it's important. V M tein: Let me call attention to another thing that's here no matter whether we go BSO or not. We do not show on our books a lot of money that we owe. We owe a lot of money to people for vacation time they haven't taken, sick leave, vacation time which has accumulated which is a considerable sum of money. We have tried to invest this right now for the future budget because otherwise this • is a runaway situation which progressively grows and grows and grows. We feel that no City can operate that way, that there has to be a cut off as to liability of the City. Obviously when these people get transferred over to BSO they're going to want to know what happens to their vested interest of their vacation and their sick leave. Those are things which have to be addressed in any event, we have to know what's doing with that, you just can't sweep that under the carpet because eventually one day the thing's going to blow. I think that it's good that it's coming out one way or the other now that these items are coming to our attention and should be handled. We have to find out how how much it costs and get the numbers, we don't even have the slightest idea what the real numbers are as to what we owe these people. I think if we do this we will get the numbers after this workshop. Those are the things we'll have to know before we can move on. I really think that this discussion here today is finally the first step in a progressive educational situation before the electorate gets this. There's no sense in just slapping a referendum out and having emotions fight whether we want the BSO or our own Police Department. I think it's more important to let the people know what we're talking about. What are the problems, what are we going to kill, what are we not going to kill and let them decide what they want to do about this thing. I think and I think the time has come to really put this thing on the table. What the real cost to our Police Department is, how much would it cost to sever and cancel the pension and cancel the overtime and the vacation and the rest of the stuff that has accumulated and what the problem, the problem of building a Police Station is the least problem, putting the building up. We have the money we've gone to budget, if it's the BSO we have it. If it's not the BSO then I don't know that we have the money to build a new Police Station but that's not the problem as this moment. The problem at this moment is what are we going to do with all these little things that have been hanging for years that are now coming because you know when you move from one house to the another you find alot of things in the closets that you forgot about and that's what was happening here. We now realize that we have obligations which are on the books that we owe people and we have not made any provisions actually to cure it. I think we're going to have to do it. I know we're going to have to do it before you make the transfer. Thank You. Mayor Hart: Larry, can you carry on and then we'll ask our questions after we've listened. /ts J Page 4 Larry „Pgrrett*: Yes. Mr. Mayo just said on page six I just says, the BSO agrees that employment from the City of hundred and forty hours of vacation benefits, holiday tin CZM Stelzer: Can I ask you a question? LsUry P tti: Sure. C/M Stelzer: What happens after we transfer the two hundred and forty hours isn't the problem. We've go so many hours on the books here we've already gotten the printouts a month or so ago which showed us a horrendous amount of sick pay that's been accumulated. That's the thing that we have to take care of that's what Syd's talking about. Larry F retti: Yes, I understand. C/M Stelzer: Alright. Tarry Perretti: That's why I wanted to show you the money figure as to what we're talking about. C W M ssa : Mr. Mayor. Mayor„Hart: Let's take the first subject we've got there, the level of staff. C/W Hassa;go: Mr. Mayor if I may please, just as Councilman Stelzer asked a question, I have a question. I heard the Vice Mayor say that it will be a simple matter to get together with the Chief and determine within a couple of hundred feet how large the police facility should be and then you said also that if we were to build the police, if the referendum was to fail as far as going with BSO, that there wasn't enough money to build the Police Department, now that's a terrible statement because the referendum was for City Hall and Police Department. In fact it all started with the Police Building, that was the first thing that was to be built here is a Police Department and the City Hall got tied in with further discussions later but the immediate need was the Police Department. i JJ As Page 5 CZW Mass-aro:_ Now if we . . . I would like an answer not necessarily now but before we're through here, if we do go BSO in our City and then decide we don't like the service, and want to go back to our own facility and we don't build the City Hall that we were supposed to build, then where are we in our City. What kind of a problem have we created. Now please Mr. Mayor let me finish my questions that are in my head. Mayor Hart: Well I think we should hold questions until ... C W ;gssaro: These are not things that are going to be answered in here. These are not questions that are going to be answered in here, I know they're not but these are questions that we better keep in mind that there's got to be an answer to it and that we have to know and I did have a further question but with the fact that I was interrupted there I have forgotten it for the moment. I do know we might if this isn't addressed properly. One of the first things I want to know at some point in time not at this moment but why a statement has been made that there isn't money there now for a Police Department. Mayor Mart: I don't think that's the question we're here for this morning. C/W Massaro: I think it's part of this package is all I'm saying. Mayor Hart: No, I don't. I believe the question this morning is to go over this preliminary draft of a proposed contract. After we get a final draft of it we know what we're going to do then we can give some thought to as to whether we will accept it, whether we're in agreement with it or whether we don't even want to go BSO. But I think the first thing is to get a preliminary draft drawn up so we know what we're talking about before we decide what we're going to do with it or don't. Meanwhile I think the purpose of this is to put our input as much as possible into this preliminary draft, what we're able to at the moment what we can't because we have to study, we can submit after the holidays, we can submit it in writing to the City Manager, we can submit it at our next workshop that we may hold. I think the purpose is to go through this and I think this is what we should do. Larry Perrejtti: At this time Mr. Mayor I'd like to ask Chief McIntosh to come forward and if you would all turn to page two this is the page that we will be discussing at this particular time. Ala. Ruf: Paragraph 1.2 . . . 1.2 outlines the staffing that the Chief has asked for and I'm sure that he'll be able to explain each one of the items. There's a breakdown later in the contract for your information as to how many hours this totals because we're going to be into an overtime type situation and that's provision 8.2, 8.3 and 8.4. For the moment I think we should concentrate on 1.2. Chief McIntosh: First of all let me say I don't know why you didn't get the package last night, I understand that they were dropped off at the Police reception desk some time yesterday afternoon and they were not delivered. I don't know the answer why I can only apologize because they didn't get there. I think even the one evening was probably not enough time for you, but you would have had an advantage you don't have right now. In lieu of service what we've talked about from day one is the shortage of police officers on the street. r; its Page 6 11 Chief McIntosh: At the present time our staffing is on the midnight shift we have an average of 6.8 officers scheduled on duty. On the day shift we have an average of 6.8 officers scheduled. On the evening shift, which is usually the most active, we have an average of 9.5 officers assigned. Now those averages do not take into consideration people on vacation, people out with injuries, people who are sick, call in sick on a daily basis or out on a holiday, personal leave or any other kind of leave. Larry Perretti: Just to clarify, the 6.8 officers that you're is. talking about is that just patrol officers or this just... Chief McIntosh: That's just street patrol officers. Larry Perretti: Street patrol officers okay I just want to make that clear to them. Chief McIntosh: Now, what we're asking for on the midnight shift is a minimum of ten officers to be on duty at all times. We know that we have eleven zones in the City one of those zones is sparsely populated but I feel that we need to cover ten zones, particularly on midnights. In addition to the ten patrol officers, we would have one sargeant and one lieutenant at a time, assigned to that shift. Larry Perretti: What is your staffing presently of your sergeants and lieutenants. Chief McIntosh: That is the same staffing, one sergeant, one lieutenant. Larry Ferretti: Okay. --- Chief McIntosh: The second shift which is the day shift we presently again have six point eight average. I'm asking for a minimum of nine on the average, and the reason I feel that nine would be satisfactory is because we also have three Community Service Aides assigned to the day shift and they handle a large number of non --criminal type calls. Also on the day shift we need two sergeants, one on the east side of the City, and one on the west side of the City. At the present time we have two sergeants and one lieutenant. On the third shift, the evening shift, at present the average is nine point five and I'm asking for a minimum of twelve police officers and two sergeants and one lieutenant which is the same as we now have. We would have one lieutenant assigned as a relief lieutenant to take over on the days off of the other lieutenants. Do you want me to go through the whole personal or do you want to stop at patrol right now. C/M Stelzer: I have a question; Do you expect the patrolmen to work fifty six hours a shift a week. Chief McIntosh: No sir. C/M StglZer: Then you need more than ten people or nine or twelve won't you. /ts Page 7 Chief McIntosh: Of course. V/M Stein: He's not saying the same men. C/M Stelzer: No, I know, but how many men would you need. M in: He'll give you a total at the end. He just telling you how many are needed at what time. C[M.Stelzer: Oh, alright. y1M_Stein: I have to ask you a question Joe. Why is it necessary to have ... I understand during the day you have two sargeants, there's no lieutenant. Why is it necessary during the evening to have two sergeants and a lieutenant. Chief -McIntosh: Because of the span of control. Because of the amount of activity. You have the east side of the City and the West side of the City and you have a lieutenant who is actually in charge of the department during the evening hours. C W Massaro: Mr. Mayor may I request now so that it's clear that this workshop be verbatim so that we would have this information when we're going through this and studying it. Chief ntos : To back a little, to the other comment you made Vice Mayor you noticed there's no lieutenant on days but we do have a lieutenant who will have a number of other duties in addition to being responsible for the day shift patrol. He will handle the budget responsibilities, property control evidence and a number of other items, so he would be covering the both patrols as well. Larry Perretti: Joe what is your breakdown of the CSAs on the other shifts. You said there were three on the second shift; how many do you have on third shift and first shift. Q,ief McI,Btosh: Currently we have three Community Service Aides on the day shift, we have three on the evening shift, we do not use Community Service Aides on the midnight shift because the bulk of the activity is criminal in nature. Right now we have one CSA that's assigned to the property room, that would probably not be necessary, but we also do have to cover the reception around the clock. We may use one of those CSAs from time to time in the reception area. We are short one CSA right now. Mayor Hart: How many Community Aides do you have now. ChIgf Mclntgsh: We have seven. MayorHart: Seven and we are requesting eight? Chigi McIntosh: We're budgeted for eight, but we have seven, we're short one. n /ts Page 8 M Hart: In other words your present budget is for eight, so you're sticking to the same amount. Any other questions on the initial patrol that we've discussed, if not we can go onto the next section. Shirley Bloomfield, resident: Can I have a point of information? Mayor Hart: Yes, go ahead. Shirley loomfield: When you mentioned your figures or what you have upstairs right now you said that that means that I do not have people to replace for sickness or accidents or something now you are requesting more people from the BSO, do you want that to be the final figure or are you also including... In other words you want do you want all of these people to be working people at all times that what you are requesting for. Chief Mclnt_osh: I understand. TeX Bloomfield: If I have one person working uh two people working one is out I show two people, but in the evening or the others that I'm asking of BSO I am asking for four. Now am I asking for four to be constantly working. In other words always having four on patrol. Chief McIntosh: What I'm talking about here the numbers I gave are the numbers I have working at all times. Shirley Bloomfield: That's what I wanted to clarify. Chief Mc1ntQssh: Now as C/M Stelzer asked earlier; How can a guy work fifty six hours a week? He can't. That's why and when we discussed it previously we were talking about a ratio of one point seven percent. In other words the numbers that I'm talking about here which would be ten, nine, and twelve, actually equals fifty four police officers and that gives you the coverage for days off and the occasional sick call and whatever we need so that we would always have that number of people on duty in a patrol car in a patrol zone. Larry Pgrretti: Also there is a further back in the first draft there is an pertaining to your desire as to whether you want coverage or not from the BSO if an individual is absent or not. If it is determined by this Council that they don't want to replace an absent person then we get credit, one eighth credit for that particular time if we don't replace it. If we put into the contract that we want the full compliment at all times, so that if one person is sick they will get a replacement coming in that would be at the same rate with no rebate. Mayor Hart: You have A. /ts Page 9 LarryP rrettx: I think A is handled far enough at this particular Point. I would suggest you read on at your own leisure to look at the rest of that. We just wanted to give you a comparison now during this first draft of what is being requested and what we actually have in our work complement right now. So Mr. Mayor I would suggest that we get off of the level of staff right now until a later date and during the interim time when we come up with some figures we will be feeding them to you. C M tte man: Mr. Mayor on part C there down at the bottom of the page five deputies and one sargeant. These are in addition to your fifty seven patrol officers that you stated? You say deputies; Do you mean a certified patrol officer. Chief McIntosh: That's right, the patrol officer here is a deputy over there. These are the detectives. C M ottes n: I just want to get it clarified. V/M Stein: I think that C/M Stelzer is correct if not one hundred percent but partially. C M t lze : ninety five. V/M tein: Because there are in the discussions that have been Preliminary I have looked at the staffing of other cities as far as officers, I'm not talking about .. we're not getting into that discussion at all. I'm very happy to put those men on the street. A question came up between the recommendation of the BSO and your recommendation as to the amount of officers. Lauderhill which is a comparable city to us has less officers on the upper echelon then we do and I thought that something we would discuss, which we have to discuss as to why it's necessary for us to more officers than the another city. Are we unique in that way or is there a need for them. I know that in your proposal you're looking for one less Captain, I know that as a matter of fact I think one of those cities doesn't even have a Captain. The Police Chief is the top officer and then they lieutenants. So while I'm sympathetic whole- heartedly to putting the men on the street I do not favor having, and I'm not saying that's true, but I'd like to know if it's true a top heavy officer situation. As long we're making a stream line situation I'd like to do it and not carry over just because we have it. Chief M nos : Well that's one of the things we are doing as you know we've already eliminated one captain which will automatically be eliminated on October first BSO or no BSO. Under the BSO concept we would then also have two less lieutenants. To go to Section C on page two, what I'm talking about here is the five detectives and one sergeant. They would be the detectives who would handle the investigative services. They would work a five day week we wouldn't need more than five. At the present time we have five detectives and one lieutenant and that lieutenant would be eliminated and we would also be eliminating the lieutenant we currently have for training because training would be handled by the Broward Sheriff's Office. So we're eliminating one Captain, we're eliminating two lieutenants. [I /t s f' Page 10 Mayor Hart: That's what I wanted to know on five you've answered it and answered him. Because I'm trying to compare what you are requesting against what we have in present. So you have five deputies or five detectives right now and you're recommending one sargeant whereas now we have one lieutenant. Chief McIntosh: Correct. In fact what I'm saying here is that what we won't have records anymore so I don't a sargeant in charge of records. I'll put that sargeant in charge of detective and eliminate the lieutenant. Larry Perretti: Thank you Joe. I think item B Mayor is going to have to be held in advance now since Marvin Clayton stated that he would be here on June the twentieth. This is a big issue with the FOP we have submitted approximately twenty questions to the to Tallahassee to Marvin Clayton. He will be prepared and as stated before by Alan we will videotape the procedures and the questions and answer period once Marvin Clayton comes down, so this is going to have to be held until for further discussion until June twentieth. Mayor Hart: Now under E which calls for one clerk typist, Monday through Friday, assigned to Investigation Unit. What do we have right now in the way of clerk typists. Larry Perretti: We have one secretary in that position. Mayor Hart: So we're sticking ... we're going to the same thing. Larry Pe-rretti: They need somebody with stenography experience. May.D2r._B.grt: Under F one sergeant, one youth counselor what do we have running on that function. Larry Perretti: Right now we have a corporal Joe? Chief McIntosh: We have a corporal, a sergeant and a youth counselor. Mayor Hart: One corporal, one sergeant. Larry Perretti: We have two corporals presently in the work complement of the police force right now. However it has been agreed upon a number of years ago that we would no longer appoint people to the corporal ranks. So the two corporals that are there are red circled they have a special rate and if they would retire or resign we would not replace any corporals. Mgvol Hart: So we're reducing one position there. Larry Perretti: Yes. 1 /ts Page 11 Mayor Hart: We have now five, we're requesting five reception ists. Larry erretti: This is basically to cover one receptionist for each of the three eight hour shifts in a given day plus extras for the days off of these personnel. Mayor Hart: How does that compare to what we've got now. Chief I tos : Right now we have one receptionist in the day time and the only time we have a receptionist in the evening is if - somebody is on light duty due to an injury then we'll put them on the reception desk. However, under the BSO concept we wouldn't have the dispatchers here, we wouldn't have the records people here and somebody has to be here for the people who come in, the citizens come in to the police station. Somebody has to be in the building, everbody else would be on the street. Mayor Hart: What is the approximate number of people now whether you call them receptionists, dispatchers or whatever. How many do we have now. Chief McIntosh: One receptionist right now. MayorHart: What about dispatchers. Chief McIntosh: Five dispatchers. Mavgg Hart: So we have a total in other words of six and we'll operate with five. Call them receptionists, call them dispatchers whatever you want. Is that right because you now have five and one. Thief McIntosh: That's right. Mayor Hart: Five and one which is six and we're requesting five on this. Chigf McIntosh: Which would be of course a different pay scale. YZM Stein: Have you a computation or does the sheriff have a computation, how many patrolmen, how many officers, how may aides, how many receptionists, a total in each one so we can have a total of that. Chief McIntosh: A grand total of eighty five people. V/M StPin: No no, how many of each. Chief M I tos : Oh, how many of each. [l I As Page 12 C/M Stelzer: Does that handwritten sheet you gave us mean anything. YZM stein: No it's wrong, you've got too many lieutenants here. What you have here, has anybody written down what it totals. In other words how many patrolmen will we have including relief etcetera, etcetera including relief that you've asked for. Chief McIntosh: I have it. If you want I'll get it typed up for you. C/W Massaro: Mr. Mayor, I would like it typed up. I would like a comparison sheet with what we've got in each category and what you're asking for. Chief McIntosh: One captain, four lieutenants, seven sergeants, fifty nine police officers, one administrative secretary, one clerk/steno, eight community service aides, and one youth counselor. C/W Massaro: Let me just get one simple question in there. That covers a twenty four hour period of what we now have on duty. Is that what you're saying Chief? Chief McIntosh: Yes ma'am. C/W .M 9saro: Thank you. Chief MOIoQsh: Receptionists - five. They were not on that original list. V/M „ ,Stein: That makes eighty eight all together. Joe is that eighty eight, eighty eight all together. Chief McIntosh: Eighty. V/M Stein: I get eighty eight. That's right. That's what you want. CA Massaro: No, he said that's what we have now. V/M Stein: No, you know we have more than one captain now. CZW Massaro: I'm not supposed to figure that out. I just asked him if that was what he now had covering a twenty four hour period. Alright. V/M Stein: This is what you want is eighty eight men. ghigf M I tos : What we now have is ninety nine. /ts Page 13 C/W Massaro: We now have ninety nine. V/M Stein: Could we get the same run down as what you've given us. C/M_St!9171er: It'll take him a minute to read it off. Chief McIntosh: One chief, two captains, six lieutenants, seven sergeants, fifty one police officers, one administrative secretary, five dispatchers, seven records' clerks, one clerk/steno, one I.D. Technician, eight school crossing guards, eight CSAs, and one youth counselor. V/ Stein: Who's going to take care of the crossing guards. Chief McIntosh: We'll they'll have to be transferred to another department in the City. V/M Stein: What you're saying is ninety six whether you put them in Police Department or if you put them in Parks Department I don't care but then we still have payroll. The only difference is there not part of the contract we're going to pay for. Chief McIntosh: We also hope that the new school crossing guard program would pay for this. V/M Stein: I know that, but they pay either way. Tape C/M_Stelzer: In making a comparison of dollars, we've got eight 2 crossing guards on our payroll now. V/M Stein: That's what I'm saying. M er: Alright you've got to remember that. Maygj H4rt: That completes question number one right. Question A, level of staff. Chief McIntosh: Yes sir. Mayor Hart: Let's go into B, the consequences of a BSO takeover on the City's pension plan. I guess we can't do that. Larry Perretti: That's the one I'm requesting we wait until after June twentieth. Mayor Hart: Alright C ... Alan Ruf: May I just interrupt for a second. Would it be helpful, maybe it's not necessary, but would it be helpful for either the Chief or Judy to talk about the concerns that there are at the present time. f] /ts Page 14 C/W Massaro: Concerns of what? I'd like to hear what he said. Can I hear what Mr. Ruf said before, just repeat it please. Alan. Ruf: All I said was apparently it's very important to some of the senior officers in terms of time served here at Tamarac how they are going to be affected by this pension. Obviously the new officers or an officer with a year or two, there's no problem. They can easily transfer into the state pension plan and Joe has indicated to me from the very earliest of conversations that how the pension is going to be handled is very important to his people. I don't have any answers. I don't have any answers at all and that's why the man is coming from Tallahasee. I just wondered if it would be helpful to frame some of the questions that are existing either by way of the trustees of the pension plan saying what's going to happen when all this money comes out our pension plan or any questions that Joe might have. I don't know if you want to ... C/W Massaro: Of course we want to know that isn't that going to be covered before we close this workshop then. V M tein: Nobody has any answers. C/W Massaro: I know but I want to know what the questions are that have been brought up. V/M Stein: Helen may want to sit here and she can sit here. I don't want to sit here for academic reasons. If the expert is coming down from Tallahasee and spending an entire day on this one item. I don't know if we' know what we're answering. None of us really know the answers. If we knew the answers, we wouldn't ask this guy to come down from Tallahassee. I think that since we do have this thing for just a short time why don't we go to the things that we can answer or that we have some input. We don't have any input on the pension because we're not the pension experts. When the pension expert comes down as you heard, every member of the Police Department will either have a chance to be here or see it on videotape and then if there are any questions, we can address them at that time. I'm saying we shouldn't address them. As a matter of fact I said before when I started, I think that's the most important item here. Everything else we can get over. I don't know how we get over the pension plan situation, but I don't think we should sit here and deliberate and have speeches here for an hour when nobody knows the answer. Whatever you're going to ask them they're going to say they don't know. If anyone thinks they're an expert and wants to get up, it's okay with me. Otherwise I'd like to move past B as suggested by the City Manager, and go to C. C/W Massaro: Mr. Mayor, I would like to go on record. On this very subject it's easy for someone who has sat in on negotiations and discussed these things and knows what questions have been brought up, it's very simple for them to sit here and say something like this. I as one who have not been privy to the discussions that have been held would like now Mr. Ruf, I don't want to use any of your time this morning. I'd like Mr. Ruf to give us a memo on the questions that have been raised during discussions whether it was by the Chief or whether it was by the men or whether is was by the City as to the Pension Fund. I would like a memorandum on that. /ts Page 15 Larry Perretti: We have those questions that were sent to Mr. Clayton and we'll send you a copy of the questions. C W Massaro: . If they're all the questions that the City Attorney, our acting City Attorney has eluded to, that's fine. If he has more questions, I want to know what they are. Larry P etti: Just one other comment on that. We would also appreciate whether it be from the Council or any other staff people or again I had mentioned this to the POP before, that if there are additional questions, other than these we would appreciate knowing about them as quickly as possible so we can send them up to Martin Clayton, so he that he can come back with the answers on June twentieth for those as well, rather than handing him the questions on June twentieth and him saying maybe he doesn't know the answer, he's going to have to get back to us. CIM Stelzer: Why not distribute whatever questions the attorney has, give us all on Council copies of the questions and we'll add on our own. I have a lot of questions I want to ask. C/W Massaro: That's all I'm saying. Mayor„ffiart: Larry you're going to give us a report by Tuesday on where we stand on amount of hours owed and sick leave and so forth and so on. Can we get a report on what the investment of the police officers are in the pension fund, so when we look at we've got the whole picture in front of us and when we discuss the pension fund we'll have all the figures of what we're talking about. Let's go into discussion on police facility. I think that hard's to say until we decide which way we're going. Larry Perretti: I think that's strictly a Council decision, at the particular time. I think that you're going to have to right at this moment . . . it's going to be one of those open items until the referendum is passed, you're not going to be able to make a decision I'm saying. V/M SS in: Well Mr. Mayor, Helen asked the question before and I waited for this section. It is not an open item for this contract. It's obvious if the referendum falls then the contract falls and you throw it all away. It is a definite item for this contract. How you're going to do it is based upon an affirmative vote. If there's not an affirmative vote then this thing that we're doing here today goes away and then we have our own problem is what we do with the City Hall, I mean the Police Department. As far this contract is concerned it's very definite we don't have to wait for anything. We have to wait. Do we go BSO or we don't go BSO. If we go you're going to have a definite amount here. We have a definite amount of square footage requested and as I said it's pretty close when you get down to a couple of hundred feet as to what you want one way or the other. The question that Helen asked, I'll answer now. Is that forseeing the possibility that after a year or whatever time we might not be happy with the BSO we of course are going to design into this police station an expansion factor. Otherwise we would be silly to put up a facility that we couldn't expand. We are going to definitely put in an expansion factor possible expansion almost double the size that we're going to build if we go with the BSO. ff: its, Page 16 r__j 1 V/M ein: I think that's our answer. The other thing Helen made ... you have to understand I said, and I'm not the Finance Director nor am I God, I said I do not think that the available funds are sufficient if we have to build a full police complex. It's not such a great surprise to Councilwoman Massaro because she knew that before. We had an issue with the Police Chief as to nine hundred thousand dollars in communications and the Police Chief opted to build the facility and not to open a communications depending upon the Sheriff's Office, that was over a year ago when we had to decide what to do because we didn't have enough funds to build a complete facility. This really has nothing to do with the contract that's in front of us. I'm just stating facts. The total amount of the bond issue, in my opinion would not be sufficient to build a City Hall and a complete Police Facility. Yes, we can put the building up but we could not put the communications etcetera in there that are required of a present day complete facility that's all I said. That's still my opinion, however it really has absolutely nothing to do with this contract that's in front of us. It's just a comment that I made. Let me say this, the difference in dollars estimated by architectural amounts, which may or may not be valid, is BSO facilities is somewhere about six hundred and fifty thousand dollars being eight thousand square feet. our police facility that we are going to build is in the neighborhood of two and a half million dollars and that's the numbers that are probably still valid. They can't be changed unless you decide to change any construction. We're figuring about eighty dollars a square foot and we're basing it on the police facility's square footage and even those people who are screaming about the size of the City Hall, came to the conclusion that if we made the police facility slightly less in footage we would not be saving anything. The amount for redoing it etcetera, would cost us more -- than we would save and so that figure still stands as a figure and that's the difference between six hundred and fifty thousand, seven hundred thousand and two and a half million dollars. Those are the figures of putting up the police facility ourself for a full police department as opposed to BSO. Those are based on square footage, not on any political situation or any thing else. Those are footage which have been given to us by the architect. Alan Ruf: Syd you hit a responsive chord in my head when you said that this is an item for this contract. This contract at the moment, the first draft, says that we will agree for police services through FY 86 - 87 with a one year option through FY 87 -88. I don't think any of us suspect that we'll be anywhere but where we are through FY 88. The whole exercise about talking about eight thousand and how we're going to finance it is probably isn't an item for this contract because this particular contract, in it's present form, only speaks through FY 87 - 88 and I don't think we're going to be anywhere but where we are. It may very well be for the purposes of this contract, for the purposes of the referendum in the fall the question of where the ultimate police facility where be located and what it costs might be either to the citizens or the sheriff is another item in this contract. As far what this is going to cost through FY 88, we're going to be where we are and I don't think there's any question about it and those numbers ought to be pretty easy to plug into this contract. May4l-Hart: The only thing I think we should consider in drawing this up, as I recall when Sheriff Navarro gave us his original presentation was that the BSO would pay rent for the facilities they would use. I think there's a figure of forty one thousand. i /ts Page 17 Alan „$uf: It will be a credit against the monthly cost and there may be other credits such as some kind of a credit for the equipment that we're transferring because it comes up in the middle of a fiscal year and I don't think the Sherrif's going to budget for that purchase. V/M Stein: Well Alan also just in consideration of what you said while we were talking about forty one thousand in rent, the consideration was that they would pay their own utility bill and telephone bill. I don't know that it's feasible if they stay in this place to do that we may have to adjust that too. Those are only numbers. What I'm trying to say is if we decide to do it, they're only numbers that we're talking about. Whatever the electricity costs or what ever the air conditioning costs. They are numbers that can be determined, they are not up in the air and they're not fictitious. We don't have to sit around and kick them around. They know that they have to pay for the use of the facility, the space, their own utilities and of course in the new facility they'll have their own telephone system, whether they use our telephone system here, or not that's for them to decide. Those are washdats as you said, we realize if they add that, they add to our service contract and take it back. So what we're really is ... If we charge them fifty thousand a year they calculate that —h their contract to us, so we're taking out of one pocket and putting it in the other pocket. The more rent we charge the Sheriff the more he charges back on his contract to us. I think it', just and academic situation. C/M ,Steizgr: There's no provision in this budget comparison that we have that they are charging us for rent. They are crediting us for rent. I don't see any provision in here that they're charging us for rent. It's not going to be a washout. V/M Stein: No but ... C/M StQ—lzer: It's not going to be a washout. It may be a washout as far as our cost is concerned but it's not a wash out as far as V/M Stein: I'm assuming with all due deferenceto the Sheriff that he calculated the rent here as far as his overhead to service us. C/M Stelzer: It's not in here. V/M Stein: Well, if he's going to pay us forty one thousand dollars he's got to get is some place, doesn't he. Nobody'L giving us a present of forty one thousand dollars. C/M Stelzer: Syd if you look at his projection he's only got salaries, dnd he has specific items that he's charged you and nowhere in these charges are rent charges. He's giving us credit for ... C/M Gottgsman: Mr. Mayor, a question, a point of information. At the moment, the question of a police station is being held back until a referendum. It occurs to me that also at the moment we don't know where the police station will be, whether it will be still in this building, which with it's limited space or do we build what Syd Stein said, a miniature police station which can be expanded later. /t s Page 18 C/M Gottesman; My question is the police station right now for the next year or tw(. is still going to be a very inadequate space thing because we have that Is that true, is that what we're saying. V/M stein: I don'4 know how inadequate it is because some of the services... You can't compare the police department as it is now and as it will be under BSO. Some of the departments are going to be moved out of here, which will give them much more space. C/M Gottesman: When you say some departments will be moved, when we go with BSO? V/M Stgin: Of course. C/M Gottesman: I'm saying what happens if we don't get to that point. We're talking a whole year in advance. V/M Stein: Then we'll stay here, there's nothing you can do. C/M Ggtt gMan: That's what I want to determine. I mean if we stay with our own Police Department, Q1M Gottesm4n,: We'll still be stuck with the small space. C/M Stelzer: What are you going to do. Then you build a new police department. C/M Gottesman: No, then we have to go and address ourselves and a question of a Police Station .... I said it earlier. I just want to know where we stand. C./W Massaro: Mr. Mayor, i think there's still an important question._ I think you're absolutely right'Arthur that this has to be considered because all I keep hearing is that the numbers have been changed from what the original referendum was on how much money was supposed to be for a City Hall and how much was to be for a police facility. Now those numbers have got to be looked back at because that's what the people voted for, that's what was the intention. Hart;Baygg That's not the purpose of this meeting and I don't believe, I don't want to go into that now because it's a separate subject but, but I don't believe that referendum said so much for a police station and so much for ... C/W Massaro: No but our figures did. We did quote those figures on the record. Mayes $grt: The only one gdestion I want to ask is this figure of forty one thousand that is in there for rent, where there's a credit or they're going to pay it, is that based on the present facilities or is it in anticipation of a new one being built. /ts Page 19 C/W Massaro: Do we have eighty two hundred? Do we have it here? M.aygr Hart: Have you any idea Joe of what are the square footage of your present facilities are in total. Chipf s : Yes. With what we have in here and the trailer the total is five thousand. s ro: Well Ur. Mayor, 1 did z4t;4-:64,6l have the floor. This a very important question becau::a Sheriff Pavarro did state when he was here that if this space i:ti't the amount they require, that they've got to go out and rent a place and we have to pay for it. Is that taken into consideration. CZM StelzeKa What they';.e asking is that we build an eight thousand square foot building for them and they will pay us rent for that eight thousand square feet. Isn't that what the story is? V/M Stein: That's exactly right. That's where the number came from. CZM gtgtjQlZer: That's were the forty one thousand comes from. V/M Stem: I said that we were two hundred foot apart. We were talking eight thousand and we asked for eighty two hundred. I mentioned that I can come up with a number but that's way I said we're pretty close. That's where the numbe. came from. C/W Massaro: But we don't know what you're talking about. y/M Stein: However, for one year we can't move. What they would be paying us is oiMher staying here and pay us five dollars for five thousand feet alright, or go some place else and not pay us anything and have their own quarters. That's the two optior.s you have. If you don't want them here and the space is needed they will move out and get their own quarters, you won't get a credit and you won't get a charge. CZW Massaro; Okay but those things are not in here. V/M Stein: Why that's why we're discussing it here today, Helen, okay that's what the workshop is all about. C/W Massaro: But some of these things we have to pull as if it's sacreligious. Mayor F t: I would like to complete this. I don't want to go into at� pro or con BSO campaign at the present time. Let's go into finishing what we started out to do, to find out what is written here and questions Alan Ruf put down here, that we should answer. ; think we can go next to the question a, which is under equipment purchase by BSO, article twenty. /ts Page 20 Larry Ferretti_ The BSO and the committee from the City had agreed upon an appraiser to look at the equipment that the City had. The appraiser was hired, the apprai-er submitted their report, I. sub mitted it to the BSO,, at this particular moment I have not heard personally from the BSO as to their interest, although we both agreed we would both accept the appraisers calculations as to the "V amount of equipment that they would be interested in. Colonel Werter or Mike I don't whether you're prepared to come up forward with that at this particular point. If you are, I'd appreciate it if you would. If not, if we could have your comments about the appraisal at a later date. Colonel Werter: The appraisal that we received is reasonably hot off the press, as you might imagine as a lot of the things we're talking about this morning. We have not really had an opportunity to complete this adjusted . . and the other thing we have to do quite honestly is project any equipment and it's condition as of January 1, 1907 date in terms of it's value, particularly with regard to cars and things like that, in terms of the miles accrued on the car at the present rate and how many miles of service of the life will be left. We will be prepared to address that at a future date. Mayor Hart:.; think that Council has already to the purchase of some new equipment which would have to be adjusted too, at that time. golonel Werter: Yes sir. Mslygr ji4rt: and equipment purchase appraisal 9ZW Massaro: I'd like to ask; consideration when the appraisal was January. This appraisal was just made. since the date of that wasn't that taken into made the condition as of Larry Ferretti: Well we had to come up with an up to date figure because we never had anything. Ail we had is a fixed value asset when it was at purchase price and it was in the neighborhood of like six million and something. 91ki _Massaro: Larry this appraisal was made by a bonafide appraiser. When was this done? Larry Perretti: What was the date on that? C/N Stelzer: A couple of weeks ago. QZW o: Alright, now the statement was just made by the gentleman that they have to look at what the value was as of January first, see what the mileage was. Isn't that what the appraiser did. Are you �w,king about what it will be next January? Oh, alright; I beg your pardon. /ts Page 21 Q1.0nel Wigr_tcLr: The p;9int being, this is as current as you can get. I think -p* -all have a basis from which to make some very intelligent decisions about whether or not we will purchase the equipment. I'm certainly mindfull of the fact that much of the equipment perhaps with the exception of the automobiles, will neither go up very much or down very much from the value that's there now. Mayor Hart: So we're agreed that that will be adjusted after the decision is made to go with BSO :n the takeover. Just as to it's depreciated value at the end of this year and to add to that any new equipment that has been purchased from the City since the day of that ... CQ"lQnel Werter: Yes sir, and the prime ingredient that we will be looking at honestly is service life. WJ2at will be the service life of that piece of equipment. C/M GottW-esman: Colonel, Mr. Mayor has there been any agreement that"once you arrive at this figure that the Mayor just spoke of that you're going to buy this, or it,'s still open yip in the air. Colonel ter: I .think it is clear, and I think it was raised earlier that there was some feeling that the equipment, that the City would not receive it's fair share of value of the equipment. I think the purpose of the appraisal.. ottsnan: What do you mean by that? Cplane_1_kerter- I said earlier, w4pn these discussions were going on much earlier. That there was some feeling that the City might not receive it's fair share of the value of the property now in the hands of the Pplfce Department. That was the purpose for the appraisal to determine what that value is. I would be less than candid with you if I said that all of this equipment will not be purchased by BSO. I think there is a portion of this equipment that is either in disrepair, or poor serviceable condition, we will not purchase it. What I'm also saying, we have an appraisal from your people, from Mr. Sugarman's organization that the chances are the marketable value is worth that amount to someone, if not the Broward's Sheriff's Office, ,which would indeed give the City a return for it. M ttes an: What you're saying then if you don't buy this police equipment there are other agencies which would purchase used police equipment. _Q1,QHel WOgter: That I can.'t answer you but your appraiser I think takes that into consideration when he gives a value to it. LOrry Per etti: When I spoke..cu Mr. Sugarman that's exactly what he relayed to me as well that if they don't take it, that he would then, he's a professional certified appraiser and auctioneer, that that's what they would do and if the City so desired they would auction off any of the excess equipment that the BSO didn't purchase to get the City back some additional money. 1 /ts Page 22 C/M QZ;gman: T40's what I'm interested in, getting back as much money as we can get back obviously. So I think BSO or otherwise we have a certain amount of equipment, how much is it worth to dispose 'of it. C.Qlgnel Werter: I think from the purpose of the City's point of v$jow, -the value of the property whether by the Broward Sheriff's Office or some outside enterprise is money that will be coming back to the City in way or another. sLM Stelzgr: I was under the impression that if we had an appraisal of all of the equipment that is being used by the Police Department that the BSO is going to take it over at the appraised value all of it. why should we have to run around peddling what's left. VZM Stein: That's not what the contract says. CZN Stelzer: That's what the original contract said. y1M, ,atgin: No it never said that. It said that the BSO shall eithei'take-it or you have the right to sell it. They have first refusal, that's what they're saying. CC/gr: WI don't remember any of that. YZM n: That was the original, it's never changed. C/M Stelzer: I don't remember any of that. V/M St in-: Am I right Larry, that things never changed. Lagry Ferretti: No, I think that's the only way it can actually pork because in some areas the BSO has enough equipment to satisfy our needs without even taking some of ours, at the present time. Asa Ruf: On that issue, I might just say however, that we are either going to plug in a number or we're not going to plug in a number for the purposes of the referendum. I think it' s got to be a number that is set as of the date of this contract. You may very well have to project what it's value is going to be January one, but I think there has to be a number or there's not going to be any number in this agreement. So to the extent that we're going to have a contract and to the extent that we're about art,icl_e 20.1. I think for the purposes of the referendum, there has to be a number, or we have to take the equipment out and say that's oranges, that's not apples. I think that's another issue that has been raised through this workshop. I chink there's several things that've been raised through this workshop that are very helpful to me in negotiating this contract or at least knowing what needs to be in. /ts Page �3 V/ Wrrv-Perretti: Again I just would like to emphasize to the BSO that these figures have to be plugged in by the last Council meeting in 'July in order for us to prepare our referendum and also to submit anything to the citizenry before the actual election because the Council will be adjourned in the month of August, ao that's or basic target date for plugging in figures into this particular contract. We'll schedule it for approximately around the fourth Wednesday in July, however, the Mayor,at his discretion can call a special Council Mooing, so you can figure on the fourth Wednesday in July we need these figures plugged in. vpr, Hart: Are there any further questions? Aion thank you for everything, 1 think we covered Alan Ruf: I think that you've covered it and -2 appreciate the time that you've taken to do it. Mayor Hart: Ar. A1pe r Carl Alper resa,dent: Thank you Mr. Mayor since this is a workshop I thought we would have an opportunity for the public to make some contribution. As I stand here, I'm not for or against the Sheriff's office, -I want that understood. What I am saying are thoughts which occur to me which I think may be pertinent in the long run to the negotiations, which I think as far as I've heard are not really finalized. Th.e Sheriff's Office is a Broward County -institution the contract we're about to make is I ufiderstood to run to fiscal year fifty eight. Kgyor Hart: Fifty eight? Mr. -Alper: Eighty eight, pardon me, I'm thirty years behind. What I'm trying to say is" maybe a temporary contract but from my understanding of how cities and other institutions work, temporary becomes permanent. I just asked a lieutenant whether in any City _of Broward County the Sheriff's office has been put out and he tells me that they've continued all along, wixerevec they've made a contract apparently the City would be content with there work, so in that sense, temporary becomes permanent. It does in many other temporary agreements. We will have, so we'll have in here a really permanent county department. The referendum as I understand it will not mandate that we builda building but we'll give authority to this Council if it so determines to build that. y/M Stein: We have the authority. CZM Stelzer: We have the authority to build the building right now. Mr. Alper: That's fine but you're not mandated to build a police facility. C/M Stelzer: We are. Mr. -Alder: We are mandated, we must bui..ld it. I its / Page 24 e telzgr: We put it on our referendum-. Mr. Llpe_r_: I know that but that does that referendum say you've got to. Now I'm saying it as follows. The Sheriff necessarily has to move his men about. -If something occurs in a neighboring county, where tbz aheriff has the right to go in, he'll move people there: I_� more people are needed temporarily in Tamarac, he'll move peS>ple here. So really what we're doing is becoming part of a county institution, and that's not objectionable. The thought,that I want to present to you is as follows. We have in Tamarac_, a fine 11brary it serves mostly the people of Tamarac but it's'a Broward County institution that's paid for, the books are supplied by them, the personnel is paid for them, the rent is paid for them. What I'm trying to say is it makes sense to me that since in the long run this Broward County wfll ae here and we'll be a County institution and'si.nce the negotiations are not finalized, and I Dove a feeling the Sheriff is dying to come in here, and we want tlha Sheriff's office if we think he can serve the C1?:y at a greater ability but less expense or even the same expense. We ought to negotiate with the County or with the Sheriff's office that the idea that the Sheriff would draw that, that the county build it's facility and pays for it's facility and maintains it's facility just as the library as maintained. Now I'm not convinced that's it's already been determined that we've got to build it and he's got to pay rent or otherwise. I'd like you to consider, and only consider negotiations with the appropriate authorities that they, the County build the institutjors_. . Wlhopk You. C/M SJtgJy,gr: We don't have to build it. I they want to build it themselves, they build it themselves. �4�sg4rq: You have to supply it ar._Alper: If they build it themselves, I'll say hurray for the Sheriff's office. don't know why C/W Massaro keepo on saying, :f yo-O do not want to have a station here then Sher.Ltr will takrm care of quartering his men. We do not have to supply it it'd raot part of the contract. If we want them here rather than a mile down or someplace than we put it here for our convenience because wel-d like to have them in the City. They can be any place, as you said they're a County organization. It is not our obligation to quarter them, it's a cooperative situation. We Bay we want them in this location and we'll rent you the apace. As -a matter of fact in L#ixderhill you have a situation in reverse of what you just said. The County rents space fr_o& the Sheriff, now if you want to believe that one because the courts in their building that they rent. I don't know anything about the County's building, anything for the Sheriff, 1 don't know that they have so far. We'll look into it but I just want to get it straight, we are under no obligation to build quarters for the sheriff's men. Mg. A1pgK-: And we can still have the Sheriff here /t s Page 25 V,/-M_St W Absolutely, however if we want them stuck here, so that we can.wale in the door, our pevpla can walk in the door, not a mile or two away then we will build a facility as a land- lord and rent it to them, not as a police department, but as a landlord of a building. D9 you see the difference? We're not building a police facility,.wes're buiiding a building, they're making the police facility out of it. We're building a building and renting it to them. U,_&�9_L: When we walk in the Sheriff's Offi;o _b!are, if we build a building it's ... we probably may or may not have a nine one one here. We may or may not have A .lab here. So what -I'm trying to so is that there is a facility to be created. If we can avoid the creation and expenditure of two and a half million dollars. y1 _EtQjA--: It's only six hundred and fifty thousand. It's eighty two hsandred square feet. Maypj; Hart: We'_rQ not talking about two and a half million dollars unless the public decides the do not want to go with the BSO. Mr. Asper: I had heard that figure mentioned. Mayor Hart: I think Carl, the answer will be if we complete, if we start on our plans which hopefully will get started on the Muni-cipal Complex, the space will be there to add on a police facility of the size they need if we pass the referendum in November. If we don't pass the referendum in November there's no problem, We woulsi still would have to have a bigger one and this will be considered in the plans for future expansion as the Vice Mayor said. If by chance we go through this and our new facility is not really, I'm sure the Sheriff's Department on a temporary basis will make due the facilities that we have here on the basis of rental until our new facility is really. If at any time the Sheriff's Department would say before we go to work on building rather it's six or eight hundred thousand, six thousand feet, or whether it's a big building. If they say well we feel we want an entire big police station in the City.pt Tamarac it'll be up to them to build it and we won't chase them out. As a matter of fact, we may even dive them the land. Mr. Alper: Am I getting the correct impression when I hear that a fac4l�i.ty if it's built by the City of Yamarac or any portion of it's built by the city of Tamarac, it is for the convenience of the people and nothing else. -T am suggesting that we look into the savings of many hundreds of thousands of dollars. CZM tt an: Mr. Mayor, one final question this morning. Larry, what is the final date that the wordage of the referendum must be submitted to Jane Carroll. You have so many days to get it on the ballot. MayorLart: While Larry's getting the exact date he has to submit it to Jane Carroll's office, I want to ask if the Sheriff's Department personnel have any further statements or questions or anything you want to ask us. �j i /t s _. Page 26 CoIgnel rte • I hope tUat everyone here understands the purpose for this meeting, 'it's quite honestly to have the elected officials of the City of Tamarac give input so that the staff people can put together a contract that reflects your interests and the citizens interests. AJ4.0 with regard to the pension meeting; which will be on uu"e twentieth we understood that Friday was the best day for that to happen for the members of the police department. We have asked all members of the Pension Board to be here also. We are also asking from the Florida Retirement System for a member; I believe Mr. Bob Henning will be here, not from Mr. Clayton's office, but'from the Florida retirement system to continue to deal with that transi-tior,. There is a State Statute which deals quite succinctly with transitioning from a municipal pension system to the Florida State Retirement System in Zhapter one eighty five and that is laid out and I have referred that information to your Police Department as well. I think Mr. Clayton and the other folks will be there to answer the technical questions of implementing a State Statute in a way that will properly satisfy the participants, the legal responsibilities of the Pension Board and the legal responsibilities of the City. I would just say it's been extremely helpful and I think it's been a productive environment _aday and I suspect it will happen that way in the future. I didnli want to mislead you, if I have I apologize with regard to the equipment but there is some equipment for instance that an appraiser may say is worth three hundred dollars that is not operational. It may be worth three hundred dollars for salvage. -I speak particularly of let's say a radio or something like that where the components of it are of value to someone but the radio as a functional piece of police equipment may not. Mayor Hart: r want to say this I would hopefully after you get we get the additional figures from Larry by "'uesday -and any suggestions that Council has for input into this to submit them in writing into Larry so he can then take them over to the proper committ-e.e. Larry as we're suggesting any member of Council and any member of the public for that matter, as long as you sign your name and he knows where it's coming from, any suggestions that you have these are the preliminary contract, submit it to Larry in writing so that then it could be handled fo.iC 4nput and I presume that when we get a little further beyond on this and the second proposal and so forth embodying the changes will have to have another workshop hopefully with a little more notice. Larry Perretti: In answer to Councilman Gottesman's question. If yosi want to utilize the latest registration votes that' then it is thirty days prior to the election. The election is November the fourth. We e have had s1T►c _1've been here in the City a referendum before that' was put on the: ballot. If you recall going back there there were brochures made prior to that time when Leroy Brown and Laura Stuurmans went out to the particular areas and gave out the' brochures to educate the people prior to that, that would strictly be a decision up to this Council as to whethe.c they want to proceed with a brochure type to get into the areas"to educate the people. CZM StglZer: We halve a resolution. Mayor Hart: I think Councilman Gottesman asked a question which was different. -I think he asked the final date for submitting it. C/,,Gottesmaa: Right, so w-e make sure we get on the ballot. /ts Pace 27 C/M Stglzer-: September fourth_. Larry Perretti: Well it has to be drawn up before then. C M Gottesman: That was the purpose in asking Larry, I thought it was ninety days. Larry Perretti: No sixty days would be ... That's why I said we have to finalize this thing the last week in 'duly. Vhe staff will dress the thing up in August while you're gone and then the first Council meeting you have in September, it will be presented back to you for final passage''and that'll be it. That's the way I see the time table. C/M Gottesma-n: Fine, thank you Larry, thank you fix. Mayor. Mayor ,mart: Anything further, Vickie? Vickig Beech,s'dent: Not to be in conflict with Mr. -Perretti, but I think as far as we're concerned, that was an elaborate set up that we"had before. I think as you have the pertinent facts of cost versus whatever it is in the simplest form possible the bottom line is the best way to gp.. As far as having these brochures and all these other things that we had before, they just were coloring the subject shall we say. Thank yom. Mgvgg Hart: Any further public comment? -Any thing else from the Council? Arthur Gottesman. f, Sottesman: We did agree, Council did agree, that we'll send a 1et-ter to register voters with a summary of the facts. With no further discussions, Mayor Hart adjourned the meeting at 10:35 A.M. CITY CLE 91 This public document was promulgated at a cost of $185.2o or $ 13-24 per copy to inform the general public and public officers an-d employees about recent opinions and considerations by the City Council of the City of Tamarac. /ts w Page 28