HomeMy WebLinkAbout1980-11-04 - City Commission Special Meeting MinutesL�J
5811 NORTHWEST 88TH AVENUE 0 TAMARAC, FLORIDA 33321
TELEPHONE (305) 722-5900
October 28, 1980
NOTICE OF SPECIAL MEETING
CITY COUNCIL
TAMARAC, FLORIDA
Please be advised of a Special Meeting of the City Council to be
held on Tuesday, November 4, 1980 at 10:00 A.M. in the West
Conference Room at City Hall.
The purpose of the Meeting is to conduct Architect Negotiations
for the addition to City Hall with the firm of Michael A. Shiff
and Associates, Inc.
Council may consider such other business as may come before it.
The public is invited to attend.
Pursuant to Chapter 80-150 of Florida Law, Senate Bill. No. 368: If a
person decides to appeal any decision made by the City Council with
respect to any matter considered at such Meeting, he will need a
record of the proceedings, and for such purpose, he may need to
ensure that a verbatim record of the proceedings is made, which
record includes the testimony and evidence upon which the appeal
is to be based.
Carol A. Evans
Assistant City Clerk
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10/28/80
CITY OF TAMARAC, FLORIDA
SPECIAL CITY COUNCIL MEETING
November 4, 1980
CALL TO ORDER: Mayor Falck called the meeting to order on
Tuesday, November 44, 1980 at 10:00 A.M. in the West Council
Chambers.
ROLL CALL: PRESENT: Mayor Walter W. Falck
Vice -Mayor Helen Massaro
Councilman Irving M. Disraelly
Councilman Irving Zemel
Councilwoman Marjorie Kelch
ALSO PRESENT: City Manager, Edward A. Gross
City Attorney, Arthur M. Birken
Mayor Falck read the notice of the special meeting to conduct
Architect Negotiations for the addition to City Hall with the
firm of Michael A. Shiff and Associates, Inc.
_
2. Discussion_an _ d possible action---. Northwood.._ LZ_._Tr1 .azt_..._.and Tract
36 Density.
SYNOPSIS OF ACTION: Agendized by consent --
Preparation of a stipulation with H.L.R.
subject to plat approval by the Count
---ate__ Stipulation approval by Judge Weissing.
C/M Zemel MOVED to agendize on possible action Northwood II Tract
1 and Tract 36 density, and V/ M Massaro SECONDED the motion.
VOTE: ALL VOTED AYE.
City Attorney Arthur Birken indicated that two Council meetings
ago Council first learned of a little hitch in the approval that
was given for Tracts 1 and 36; the density for Tract 1 was
interpreted by the City as being 11.77 units per acre and the
question had been raised and interpreted originally by the
property owner that the density should be at 15 units per acre
and that affects the number of units which could be built in
Tract 36.
Mr. Birken further indicated that Tract 1 was platted and site -
planned at less than the maximum permitted and there was a desire
to transfer from Tract 1 to Tract 36, 61 units,,figuring at 11.77
units per acre there was a shortfall of 25 units. This matter
was discussed at the last Council meeting and tabled and is being
discussed today because the County Commission has the plat of
Tract 36 on its agenda today. Chairman Forman has stated that
this will be brought up at 2:00 this afternoon.
Mr. Birken said the City Council did approve the plat and site
plan for Tract 1 and Tract 36 as presented with 25 units each;
Council is most anxious to see that the developer is not penalized
because of an action the City was involved with. He said the
solution proposed should not establish any adverse precedent for
the City and if Council agrees, take a portion of the existing
density that would be distributed to Tract 36, which is zoned
R-3,and under R-3 zoning even at 11.77 units per acre, there
...........
should be far in excess of the number of units that are requested.
The City could enter into a stipulation with HLR to the effect
that the density for that one tract would be 61 units, more than
is provided for in the court order at the time and that we would
take away the extra units from Tract 1 which was 36 at 11.77 units
per acre and do this on the basis of density. The City Attorney
said the 25 units would be coming out of units that were built or
platted within Tracts 4, 5 and 6 already at lower than the density
provided under the court orders.
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Mr. Birken went on to say that as Council is aware, most of
the Montwood Tracts have come in substantially less than the
court orders if the question was raised as to where those 25
units would come from by the County Commission. He said -
what is being requested is authority to enter into a stipula-
tion that would give certain credit to Tract 36 at current
zoning and that this stipulation be submitted to Judge
Weissing for approval. Mr. Birken said he has spoken with
representatives of the County Attorney's office and they do
not appear to have any problem with this approach and that
the City is concerned with avoiding setting a precedent as
is the County and it appeared that this approach would be the
acceptable solution to the County if acceptable to the City
Council.
V/M Massaro indicated that there are some 700 plus paper units
within Land Section 4, 5 and 6 that were not used under the
court order.
Mayor Falck said it would be his suggestion that Council agree
to authorize the issuance of the stipulation.
Mr. Victor de Sousa representing HLR indicated that Mr. Rubin
is now at the County awaiting the outcome of this meeting in
order to proceed with the matter which has been postponed until
2:00 P.M. He said if the City approvesproceeding with this
stipulation, he asks that the City inform the County Commission
today to see if they can get the plat approved subject to the
stipulation being approved by the court.
_. _.. --- - -----
Mayor-Falck expressed his opinion that V/M Massaro and the City
Attorney should be in attendance at the meeting this afternoon.
Birken said he anr1_-_t_4e_.u.i.ce _Ma-ao.r . old. be there -as -
_re.nres-e-ntativ-es _.
Mr. Victor de Sousa stated that without going into detail, the
solution that Mr. Birken put forward, is the solution that
serves all purposes without creating any problems to anybody.
V/M Massaro asked if this is approved subject to a stipulation,
would the stipulation further by approved by Council, and
Mayor Falck replied yes.
V/M Massaro MOVED that the Council accepts and authorizes the
preparation of a stipulation between the City and HLR for
Tracts 1 and 36 which would state that the density for Tract
36 would be computed by looking at current zoning for that
Tract with the maximum number of 61 additional units and that
the density for Tract 1 would be reduced to the number of units
that are shown on the approved site plan, 221 units total on
Tract 36 and 1.71 units total on Tract 1 and that the City Council
is approving the new density subject only to the appropriate
language being agreed upon at a subsequent City Council meeting,
also subject to the approval of the..Plat by the County -and.-
approval of stipulation by the judge.
Mr. Birken replied to a question by Mr. de Sousa and explained
if the County Commissioner does not approve them, the City
Council needs to come back and decide what it wants to do.
C/W Kelch SECONDED the motion.
VOTE: ALL VOTED AYE.
Mayor Falck excused C/M zemel.
1.Architect Negotiations for the addition to City Hall
SYNOPSIS OF ACTION: Tabled until next regular meeting.
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Mayor Falck stated that the purpose
negotiate with Michael A. Shiff and
Council's first choice in connection
addition to City Hall.
of the meeting is to
Associates, Inc., the
with the proposed
C/M Disraelly wanted to know what would happen if two years
from now we built a new City Hall; what effect would that open
space have on our ability to sell the building since the windows
and fins would not be removed and wouldn't the value of the
building be decreased as to marketing and use of this building
destroyed in many respects. C/M Disraelly suggests that we put
up with the shortage of space for another one or two years and
that we should give greater consideration to asking someone to
design a new building, at which point we go to grant or by some
other means, so that each of the departments will have the space
they need and we can adequately work within the City instead of
putting ourselves in the posture where we will have a nothing
building here :and difficulty in selling this building and making
this a worthless edifice.
V/M Massaro agreed with C/M Disraelly and further felt that
with the exception of the Police Department, we could get along
with the space we have and that we should be thinking about the
whole picture rather than filling in that space which the City
might not be happy about.
C/M Zemel returned to the meeting, and agreed that
,-in addition to the City Hall might interfere with what the
City may want to do in the future. He said perhaps Council
should think about a rented trailer.
C/M Disraelly said he would much rather pursue the thought of
an architect preparing plans for a new City Hall, and feels we
would be better off if we live with the space we now have and
perhaps entertain the thought of renting a trailer.
Mr. Gross stated that he believes City Hall is overcrowded and
that we need additional space, not only in the Police Depart-
ment, but in most departments and thinks we are wrong in
thinking that the building will deteriorate, as an architect
can draw up a pleasant addition to the building and the value
of the building will be increased. He said the important thing
is if the City does want to go ahead and build a larger facility
someplace else, it will be 3 or 4 years away and we would have
a referendum to worry about and have a problem with space more
and more. Mr. Gross indicated that he felt a trailer would not
do and feels the City could rent space someplace else, although
this will be expensive.
C/M Disraelly asked Mr. Shiff if 3200 sq. ft. w as going to be
provided and Mr. Shiff indicated that it would be about 1600 sq.
ft. for each floor, or 3200 sq. ft. for two floors and 4800 sq.
ft. for three floors.
C/M Disraelly questioned Mr. Gross as to who will get the space
and where each department will be and which department is going
to use what space.
(tape side #2)
Mr. Gross replied that we already have the information as to the
amount of space each department requires, but Council has not
discussed this with the architect because at the present time,
it may be voted down and feels it is too early to do that. Mr.
_...__.es stated-- tha-t --- i-rr the initial plans after the architects is
hired, he can then tell us what walls can or cannot be taken
out.
V/M Massaro asked if the City draftsmen or City Engineer could
:'.'takc a rough sketch of what could be done.
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November 4, 1980
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C/M Disraelly indicated to Mr. Gross that he has to tell the
architect how much space will be needed, and Mr. Gross said
that he has been given that information.
Mr. Shiff explained that in bigger projects, sometimes a
programmer will come in and figure out how to utilize the
space and in smaller projects, the architect can advise how
that space is to be used.
C/M Disraelly would like to know what departments will fill
in the 3200 sq. ft.
Mr. Shiff discussed the fact that the City may be going to
referendum to build this City Hall and V/M Massaro indicated
Council is not thinking about that now, but are going to try
to get grants to build City Hall and that will be investigated.
Mayor Falck expressed his thoughts in that he is not concerned
about what modifications will be done to the building and what
effect it would have on the building, but that the reason the
City selected.Mike Shiff & Associates was that they came up
with an observation as to how it could be done and that it would
not detract from the building. He also indicated that he thought
it would be about 5 years before a new City Hall could be built
and that the City would have to go to a referendum even with a
grant. Mayor Falck said the least we can do is to afford our
people the facilities in which to work and that we cannot seek
people to do things for us and the people of the City and not
give them a place to work.
C/M Disraelly asked if anyone thought about the possibility of
putting a folding door across the middle of Council Chambers and
make two or three rooms out of the existing space and Mr. Gross
indicated that this has already been taken up.
Mayor Falck said he has no objection as to what .can -he done t4
modify the space, as it is a number one problem.
C/W Kelch indicated that this still does not solve the problem
of crowding within the departments and she feels we should
listen to what the architects said, as they felt it was a
feasible plan and would not destroy the building.
V/M Massaro asked why a rough sketch hasn't been done, so Council
could see exactly what would go where.
Mr. Robert Savers of Michael Shiff & Associates indicated that he
wanted to respond to a question that was asked of him as to the
last meeting as to whether they thought it seemed to be a
feasible concept to enclose that space and their response was
after a previous examination of the building, that it was a
feasible plan, but spacial need was not indicated to them at
that time. He said his background includes a lot of programming
and there are two ways to identify that program; one,is that
you sit down with people who are involved in the work and inter-
view people and directors and ask them what spacial need is
required, and two.very frequently when you add on space, this
space isn't used wisely and territories should be reidentified
so that spacial needs are determined. He also said that the
3200 sq. ft. needs to be programmed and see how internal spaces
could function, as well as utilizing partitions and dividing
work space.
C/M Disraelly asked if Mr. Shiff agreed with him that the archi-
tects have to know who is going to go where, and Mr. Shiff
indicated that this is one of the reasons they are hired, to
determine what space is needed where.
Mr.Sayers mentioned that Mr. Gross has already determined that
there is a need for 3200 sq. ft. or more, but how that internal
space should be sub -divided has not been determined.
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November 4, 1980
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C/M Disraelly said he thinks the space should be sub -divided
before building and that instead of fitting what is left into
the 3200 sq. ft.; do we need 3200 sq. ft. or 5000 sq. ft.
Mr. Shiff said the City probably needs much more than 3200 sq.
ft., but you can only build so much with the monies the City is
allowed to spend and being that he is not familiar with the
internal workings of the City and if the City has to wait for
a grant, that might take a long time.
V/M Massaro said the elections may determine what grants will be
let and Mr. Shiff indicated that if the EDA Program happens, it
happens very fast.
C/M Disraelly said that we should design a new building and then
when a grant comes along, we go ahead and build, and he indicated
that he would rather use a portion of this money for the design
of the building.
Mr. Shiff reported that they can enclose two floors at least and
give the City space that can be utilized within the budget, but
he can't determine if that is the proper move for the City. He
mentioned that the windows will be blocked and that might hurt
the sale of this building.
Mr. Savers asked if the City has seen the Police facility separated
from the municipal complex, or part of it,__ and the Mayor indicated
that this had never been decided. Mr.Sayres stated that if the
Police Department can operate separately, then the building program
can be reached more quickly. He said there are LEA funds that are
now available for both programming and some moderate construction
dollars and if perhaps City Hall is five years in the future, a
Police Department,might only be 2 to 3 years away, freeing up
that space.
Mr. Shiff discussed what other cities are doing in regard to their
Police Departments and V/M Massaro said the Police Department can
be in the same complex if not in the same building.
Mr. Sayers indicated that the Pompano Beach Police Department is
going to be built in a separate.facility and that LEA and the
Association of Police Chiefs in their planning have determined
and are trying to impact grants on that premise; that Police
facilities work and operate best separated from the municipal
complex primarily because of security and acts of terrorism.
V/M Massaro said it is dangerous here with all sorts of people
waiting downstairs.
C/W Kelch asked if the Police Department was moved to a separate
building, would we have enough space here and Mr. Gross replied
that the Police use 25t of the existing facilities; C/M Disraelly
further indicating that the present Police Department uses 2900
square feet, including circulation.
C/M Disraelly said that the proposed police facility was supposed
to be approximately 8500 sq. ft. at least and the present size of
this building is only 1.3,000 sq. ft. and that 10,000 sq. ft. is
the only usable space that is inside this building. He further
indicated that the proposed allocation of space made two years
ago for City Hall showed an excess of 25,000 sq. ft. excluding
police facilities.
Mayor Falck indicated that he thought this should be tabled until
we resolve other things.
C/M Disraelly said that Council should discuss the input that Mr.
S.aye�s and Mr. Shiff have given Council.
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V/M Massaro MOVED that this item be tabled and we consider and
prepare some definite thoughts about this building or do we
want to simply be prepared at the next meeting to discuss
whether we want to start talking about a City Hall complex or
going to bid for an architect for a City Hall complex.
Mr.Shiff explained that if they were to spend money for
analyzation and programming to determine special needs on a
statistical basis, whether the City augpentedt this program
or not, this would be utilized at a later date.
V/M Massaro said that Council will have to do some heavy thinking
and can then ask the City Manager to provide us with whatever
information that is needed.
Mayor Falck indicated that we need to have a master plan because
we do not know what we will do with this building and we need to
know how we are going to develop the area and in what stages we
are going to proceed. The Mayor mentioned the Frank Veltri
Building and feel they did a marvelous job on utilizing the space
but that we haven't decided that or even where we are going to locate.
a new building.
Arthur Birken, City Attorney said that if the City has an
architect for a City Hall complex, the City would have to go out
for bids.
Mayor Falck indicated that if the City stays with this, advertising
will not be necessary.
Mr. Shiff said he thought the City needed help with the master
plan, and if the City wanted to use their services, it would not
exceed $5000.00, but they would need to meet with all department
heads and the City Manager to find out about existing space and
projected needs for the City including the Police Department;
they will look at the buildings the City owns, look at the Public
Works Building, look at the land the City owns and that will be
acquired, and then they can tell the City what is needed now and
in the future and give some projections that the Capital Improve-
ment Plan can be based on. He felt that LEA funds may be avail-
able and thinks it can be done for $5000.00.
C/W Kelch stated that she thinks Council should go with this.
Mr.Sayres..indicated that they could do.a gross plan, but couldn't
design City Hall for that amount of money, but will determine
what department needs what.
V/M Massaro asked if their proposal would include a sketch and
Mr. Shiff replied that it would be just a sketch for illustrative
purposes, but not a design for City Hall; it might be some site
studies, but not a sketch for that money.
Mr. Gross said if it is at all possible legally, he feels Council
should go ahead and asked if they can have a proposal for
Council at the next meeting, and it can be put on the agenda.
Mr. Shiff replied that they will have it ready for the next
meeting.
C/W Kelch SECONDED the motion.
VOTE: ALL VOTED AYE.
The meeting was adjourned at
ATTEST:
ASST. CIT CLERK
11: 0 A.
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This public document was promulgated at a cost of $69.38 or
$2.77 per copy to inform the general public and public officers
and employees about recent opinions and considerations by the
City Council of the City of Tamarac, Florida.
APPROVE BY
CI COUNCI ON a� /98 D
November 4, 1980
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