HomeMy WebLinkAbout1980-05-29 - City Commission Reconvened Regular Meeting MinutesCITY OF TAMARAC, FLORIDA
REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 29, 1980
(Reconvened from 5/28/80)
CALL TO ORDER: Mayor Falck called the meeting to order on Thursday,
May 29, 1980, at 1:30 P.M.
ROLL CALL: PRESENT: Mayor Walter W. Falck
Vice -Mayor Helen Massaro
Councilman Irving M. Disraelly
Councilman Irving Zemel
Councilwoman Marjorie Kelch
ALSO PRESENT
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT
City Manager, Edward A. Gross
City Attorney, Arthur M. Birken
Assistant City Clerk, Carol Evans
Clerk/Steno., Mimi Reiter
36. Tamarac Jewish Center - Discussion and possible action on:
a) Site Plan - for synagogue addition and new school.
b) Water and Sewer - Developers Agreement
c) Landscape Plan - AGENDIZED BY CONSENT
SYNOPSIS OF ACTION: a) Tabled to meeting of 6/3/80, b) approved
with stipulation that if guaranteed revenues are modified, this agreement
Mould, in turn, be modified accordingly, c) approved.
a) Mr. Jack Weiner, President of the Tamarac Jewish Center,
stated all the requirements are accepted and will be
followed with no exceptions, including the sprinkler
system. Mr. Weiner also agreed that air conditioning and
other equipment on the roof of the original building will
be covered so as not to be visible from any side.
C/W Kelch brought up the question of parking requirements,
to which C/M Disraelly replied that the present ordinance
permits 25% parking on grassed areas. V/M Massaro stated
that it is permitted on grassed areas but not in setback
areas. It is not permitted in any parking areas except so
many feet back from the property line. Mr. Cross explained
that B-6 and I-1 prohibit, under normal circumstances, park-
ing in the setback areas. However, for overflow parking
in religious uses, it is allowed. To V/M Massaro's question
as to whether this is overflow or required parking, Mr. Cross
replied it is a combination of both. They have 20 additional
parking spaces and 57 grass spaces which means that of the
required parking, 30 of those spaces would be on grass and
20 would be additional.
V/M Massaro felt the Jewish Center required a waiver to
the city parking requirements and a request for such a
waiver must be presented to Council. Mr. Weiner indicated
he would amend his original request. C/M Disraelly MOVED
that a request has been made for a waiver of the required
parking space in paved area, and that the requirement is
fulfilled by the additional permission for the shortage of
paved area to be permitted in the grassed area.
The MOTION was amended to waive the required parking of 37
spaces in the paved parking area because of the fact that
it is a religious edifice and that there is no way that they
can meet the full requirement anyway. C/M Zemel SECONDED
the motion.
VOTE: ALL VOTED AYE.
C/M Disraelly inquired if they plan to pave the median on
their side of 57th Street in order to protect the medians.
agreed with the curbing and
all around the median. Mr.
Jewish Center,said that it
be purchasing the property
next 30 days which.
V/M Massaro
requested that it be installed
Martin Kane, of the Tamarac
is very imminent that they will
immediately adjacent within the
will help the parking situation.
se
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C/M Disraelly said the median on the north side must still
have extruded curbing around the bullnoses, and on the
north side of the median for the length of their property
which will protect that median and prevent accidents.
Mr. Cross pointed out that a waiver to the parking require-
ments of Chapter 18 of the Code, which was just approved,
requires the application to be filed, a public hearing be-
fore the Planning Commis s.i or; 'andthen a Public Hearing be-
fore the City Council with proper advertisement for both.
The City Attorney concurred, adding that if C ouncil finds
there is an emergency, an emergency ordinance can be passed
waiv ing the provisions of that section of the code. V/M
Massaro inquired of Mr. Weiner if this item could be tabled
until Tuesday when this parking waiver will be ready.
Mr. Weiner concurred.
Mayor Falck recommended the previous action granting the
parking waiver be rescinded. V/M Massaro MOVED to rescind
the previous action on the Tamarac Jewish Temple building
relating to the parking waiver. C/M Disraelly SECONDED.
VOTE: ALL VOTED AYE.
C/M Disraelly said the landscape plan was omitted from the
agenda and should be agendized.
c) Landscape Plan
C/M Disraelly MOVED that the landscape plan for Tamarac
Jewish Center be AGENDIZED BY CONSENT. V/M Massaro SECONDED.
VOTE: ALL VOTED AYE.
C/M Disraelly said the landscape plan had been approved by
the Beautification Committee. It appears that there are
plenty of the proper types of trees and MOVED that the land-
scape plan be approved, as submitted, with rust -free water.
C/W Kelch SECONDED.
VOTE: ALL VOTED AYE.
b) Water and Sewer - Developers Agreement
V/M Massaro indicated the developers agreement does vary a
little from the original intent but that was because they
had a two inch service and they now have gone to an inch and
a half so that thie ar'lount of money paid, $4, 500 is in order,
and the approved form was used, and MOVED that it be
approved. C/M Disraelly SECONDED the motion.
Mr. Birken suggested the motion be amended to add that it can
be re -executed if the ;pity Council modifies its provisions
pertaining to guaranteed revenuep. V/M Massaro agreed and
C/M Disraelly concurred, as the SECOND.
VOTE: ALL VOTED AYE,
The Mayor noted the site plan, and specifically as it relates
to the materials to be prepared by our City Attorney, will be
called up Tuesday, June 3rd.
10. CONSENT AGENDA
SYNOPSIS OF b) Balance of request for $500 approved
ACTION: h) Tabled 6/11/80
j) Tabled 6/11/80
Mr. Gross said that no further work was done on these 3 items
because work was being done on the budget.
b) However, the City Manager advised the funds under this item
must be approved because we have to close ern the Lewin Property,
and the City Attorney felt that it should be a legal fee.
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C/M Disraelly inquired if it is a legal fee or should it
come out of the purchase of the lot.:..
V/M Massaro said it should come out of
the same account as the cost of the lot did.
Mayor Falck recommended the funds be taken from the City At-
torney's budget and if something else needs to be done later
a change can be made at that time. C/M Disraelly n14OVED. to
approve the payment of the invoice of Alan Ruff dated May 23,
in the amount of $500 from the City Attorney's funds.
C/W Kelch SECONDED the motion..
VOTE: ALL VOTED AYE.
h) & j) Mr. Gross asked that 10-� be tabled to next month's meeting.
The Mayor said that Mitch Ceasar's telephone bill was not
submitted and item 10-h should also be tabled.
C/W Kelch moved that item 10-h not handled at the previous
meeting in the amount of $41.96 and item 10-j be tabled
until the next regular meeting. V/M Massaro SECONDED the motion.
VOTE
LEGAL AFFAIRS
ALL VOTED AYE.
24. Emergency Ordinance - Temp. Ord. #764 - Discussion and possible
action to enact an emergency ordinance amending Ordinance No. 80-35
Comprehensive Utility Regulations -- to modify the provisions per-
taining to payment of contribution charges and guaranteed re-
venues. Second Reading.
SYNOPSIS OF ACTION: Tabled to meeting of 6/3/80.
Mayor Falck stated this item is also related to item 45. C/W Kelch
indicated her satisfaction with the conclusion of the two amend-
ments proposed by the City Attorney and MOVFDthat Temp. 794 be
approved on second reading as an emergency ordinance as amended.
The City Attorney read Temp. Ord. #764r b' tide. tee advised the title
should be corrected to read "Amending Ordinance 80-35" not "Section
80-35 of the Tamarac City Code". He stated that 2 proposed amend-
ments were distributed and Mr. Rissman,one of the developers .who
would be affected by these amendments, had provided some input
yesterday which he has not reviewed. He inquired if Council had
any questions.
Mayor Falck said he received this information 8:30 A.M. yesterday
May 28th and had not had an opportunity to review it as yet in
view of the fact there was a Council meeting all day yesterday and
last night. The Mayor indicated all back-up material should be
distributed to provide for ample review time.
The City Attorney said Council had also been given this morning
copies of the proposed revised developer's agreement which they
also may not have had an opportunity to review. The Mayor also
indicated he had not received back-up material on item 55, T.ract 70,
and found that the site plan was just hung this morning.
C/W Kelch said she would like to reinstate her MOTION regarding
acting on second reading of Temp. �,1764. When this was proposed
the first time, and passed on first reading, she felt that the two
amendments together answered both problems that were presented
at that time and the inclusion of the fwo amendments would make it.a
very workable and usable ordinance. She felt that the emergency
still exists and that it can be handled as an emergency ordinance,
and so ,.reiterated.her MOTION that.Temp. #7,64, emergency ordinance
to approved on second And -final reading.
V/M Massaro SECONDED the motion for discussion.
C/M Disraelly agreed with the Mayor, stating he also had not had
the opportunity to review the proposed amendments and Temp. Ord.
#764. He said the City may be losing money, but in order to
avoid a mistake he felt this ordinance could be passed on second
reading on Tuesday. Also, item 45 has the same verbiage of this
ordinance and was given a temporary number of 764A, so that Ctincil
would have an opportunity to look at both to make a judgment.
5/29/80
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TAP E 2
C/W Kelch stated she would prefer to rescind her MOTION in
order to avoid it being defeated on this reading.
V/M Massaro WITHDREW her SECOND.
Mayor Falck said this item will be considered Tuesday at the
reconvened meeting. The City Attorney reviewed the material
covering this, item which included the two. ordinances passed
on .first reading taking into account the changes that were
read orally into the record and passed, proposed amendments
#1 and #2, and a new master developer's agreement dated 5/27/80.
Agreements subsequent to 5/27/80 have been or will be given to
developers to have back to GDuncil before Tuesday's meeting
for the projects that are on the agenda. There is some addi-
tional language which the"City Engineer is preparing as a
separate exhibit for Concord I and Concord II, enumerating the
work which is proposed to be completed on Concord II, where
they are constructing the improvements that have to be made to
the existing pump stations.
Mr. Rubin stated to abuncil that since those improvements will
not only be serving Concord I and Concord II, that there will
be a provision where they make the improvements upgrading and
repairs immediately, and then there would be a formula for reim-
bursement within 5 years if and when there are other developments
which will benefit by that upgrading.
Mr. Birken stated if it's not done within 5 years, it is not re-
imbursable, and explained the $500 fee is for the Consulting
Engineers to determine whether there is any work that needs to
be done, or whether that work will benefit only the one project
or whether it will benefit other undeveloped property. He added
he would provide all related material to Cbuncil.
Mr. Julian Bryan said he was prepared today with executed copies
of the developers agreement dated 5/27/80 for Tamarac Gardens and
Concord Village. The Mayor stated the development items would
be called at the reconvened meeting Tuesday., June 3rd.
40. Drainage - Western Area of City - Report: Discussion and possible
action, on recommcndat=ion of the City Enaincer to correct drainage
problems if, IL,,
SYNOPSIS OF ACTION: Tabled to meeting of 6/11/80 awaiting report
from City Engineer.
CONTINUED ON PAGE 5
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THE FOLLOWING ITEM WAS REQUESTED IN VERBATIM BY C/M ZEMEL.
MR. GROSS: As you know we have been talking about our drainage
problem for a long time and what I requested of the City
Engineer was that he give us a list of those areas which he felt
are the most important areas for us to begin our drainage pro-
grams on, to eliminate water from main arteries or main road-
ways. I am not worried about the side streets yet. The first
step is to take care of the main roads in the areas. There's
a good chance that by taking care of these main roads, that we
will take care of most of the side streets that are involved in
the major flooding in the city. As I also told you in the re-
port regarding the utility company, it is suspected that a large
amount of infiltration that we were receiving during the heavy
rainfalls also comes from the same areas where we have drainage
problems, because of the fact that the water goes completely
over the street and the water therefore has to drop into the sewer
system and therefore becomes excess waters for the sewer system
and adds to the infiltration problems. What we are looking for
at this point is permission to go out and have the engineering
done on all these areas so that we can come back to the Council
with an estimated cost of what it would cost to do the whole thing;
maybe it will take the whole $600,000, maybe it will only take a
couple hundred thousand. I am not sure exactly. The engineer
will have to explain that. And then the city will pick which areas
they want to go ahead with and to start with immediately to alle-
viate the drainage problems in the city. Since Larry is our ex-
pert and our engineer, I will leave it to Larry now to technically
tell you anything and answer any questions regarding this item.
MR
KEATING: I am waiting to field any questions you may
you would like me to give you a brief synopsis of my
of the flooding we saw last week, and what we should
I will be glad to do that also at your request.
MAYOR: Okay, go ahead.
have. If
impression
do about it,
MR. KEATING: Basically, as was pointed out in my memo, last Wednes-
ay s rainfall was rather severe in that for a period of 2 to 3 hours
we had rain falling at about 2-1/2 inches each hour.
MAYOR: Is that a 25 year storm?
MR. KEATING: No. The intensity was probably equivalent to a little
bit in excess of a 10 year storm, but it did not carry on for a
long enough period of time to be able to say it was a 10 year storm
or a 25 year storm. It was a typical storm, however, but I do in-
dicate in my memo that our current design criteria should take
care of rainfall falling at that rate. When we look at what
happens with this type of storm we see obviously the problems with
traffic moving through our streets. We see problems on the main
roads, we see problems through a lot of the main sub -divisions
specifically sections 23 and 24; Westwood Drive adjacent to section
3 there and the 82nd street area in Sunflower is extremely bad.
Also there are problems on Pine Island Road and on University Drive
where if you get a heavy enough rainfall cars just stall out very,
very frequently and it creates a hazard for traffic. Traffic be-
comes immovable at some of these points. Basically, my recommenda-
tions are that we begin to look at these areas not from the stand-
point of correcting all of the problems that exist there, because
I think it is beyond our ability to pay for it at the present time.
I think we can, however, go in and make major repairs in the - well
I could call it trunk line - which would be the main lines feeding
out of subdivisions, and this should relieve the side areas suffi-
ciently to I would say probably reduce the problem by 50% at least
in those areas where we don't make improvements, and by 100% in the
areas where we do make improvements and from that point we could
see what we've got and make further recommendations as to proceed-
ing in the future.
MAYOR: How many homes actually get water?
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mr
MR. KEATING:
ooded.
certainly
of any.
I have not had any confirmed reports of homes being
I think I indicated in my memo if there were, we
ought to be looking at that first but I am not aware
V/M MASSARO: I am a little bit disturbed, with the report and the
manner in which this has been handled. If you remember the last
meeting that we discussed the drainage and the requirements for
corrective work (buncil had indicated and we acted on it, that
I would meet with Larry and with Mr. Nolan and discuss the areas
that needed correction, and to get an overall picture so that it
could be brought to Council, because Tony has at one time looked
at the areas that needed correction. In fact there is a plan in
City Hall somewhere where he had red lined the various areas but
it was a matter of sitting down with our City Engineer to deter-
mine if this was the right area to go, because we wanted to be
sure and just attach; or try to attack those areas that would do
the most good in the city, but not to completely spend the money
in one area without picking up some of the real bad spots in other
areas. You, Mr. Mayor, refer to something east of 441 that actually
is an extreme hazard, that people are very vulnerable there to be-
ing flooded, or in fact some I think have had water.
MAYOR: They had this last time around.
V/M MASSARO: And we have another area that, the street that Jack Rose
lives on. This man has really suffered over the years, and some
corrective work should be done there. Maybe it is included, but
there are certain areas that need immediate attention and this was
not done. I was by-passed completely. Nobody sat down with me to
discuss these things. We.did not discuss any of this with Tony
Nolan and consequently they have come in here and I have to blame
Mr. Gross for it. He was here; he knew what Council - what in-
structions .Council had given and he has completely disregarded it.
Now I can't keep my finger on things for you and I am the liaison
for this and I am trying real hard to watch it this time so that
we can't have a recurrence of what has occurred before. We
depended before completely on others, to give us information. I
have all the faith in the world in Larry. I have no problem in
working with Larry but I do have a problem it appears in working
with Ed recently and I don't like it and I won't tolerate it. It
just has to stop. I don't think that this is the way to get the
best for the city. I think if Council decides on something, if
Council doesn't want me to do something fine, just say so. I'll do
what you want me to do. I don't care what I am working on. I'll
work on .anthing that is assigned to me, but when I am working
on it I want to know everything that is going on within that. I
am going to give you another example. This business on 88th Avenue.
It was at one time thought that we were going to spend between $80,000
and $100,000 to make this correction.
That's across the street.
V/M MASSARO: That's right. The first figures that were coming in
were in that neighborhood and it was definitely turned down by the
man who owns Plaza Del Sol and there was no way in God's world we
could have made him do it unless we simply didn't allow him to do
anything up there and you felt it was unfair to hold up. And it
was unfair to hold up the other people from getting their license
because of trying to put pressure on them. Consequently, the re-
sult would have been that we would have had to pick up that tab.
I stayed in there all the way to where we don't have to spend a
dime to do this. The last thing that was to be done I wanted to
know how much did the City face possibly having to pay and I asked.
I asked Ralph Thissen for this information. Ralph did not give me
the information. When it was time to come to Council and it hadn't
been brought up or passed out, I again called Ralph and said "Where
is the information I asked you for?" because in my mind was the
possibility of recovering this money from the owner of the property,
which since has come to pass, but when I questioned Ralph I was told
he was instructed by Mr. Gross not to copy me. I was one who asked
for the damn information, not Mr. Gross. It didn't even occur to
him to get this information, but to be told that Mr. Gross instructed
him not to give me this information, I can't work this way. I just
can't work this way, because the thoughts are mine. I don't mind
who gets.... I wouldn't bring it out even, if it wasn't that these
things keep creeping in. If somebody else can come up with these
ideas and can think of these things ahead of me, more power to them
or I'll hand them, but in no way am I going to sit back here and
try to do my job properly and try to do the best for the city, if I
have got a stumbling block all along the way.
5/29/80
mr
C/M ZEMEL: For the first time in the history of my acquaintance-
ship with Mr. Gross, I am going to defend him. I don't think
that any Council person should be going to engineers, the public
works directors, or to clerks or anybody else for information. I
believe that the City Manager is responsible for every administra-
tive action that is taken or not taken in the city and we will hold
him responsible, but by going to the different department heads all
we are creating is a chaos which the charter tells us we must not
because we are legislators and not administrators. Now, for five
and a half years I have been hearing the same story about we are
going to do research, we are going to investigate, we are going to
have plans, we are going to have programs, we are going to do all
kinds of things. And for five and a half years the flooding is
just as bad as it was now as it was then. Now, our city engineer
said a little while ago that we didn't even have a 10 year storm
last year, it wouldn't even be considered a 10 year storm. Well I
would like to tell you that I stood up to my knees again like I did
with the City Manager five and a half years ago in water in Section
24; then I went to Section 23 and stood again like that and the
question of whether or not the city has the ability to pay - the
City has to have the ability to pay. They must have the ability to
pay. I don't care where they get the money. First of all, the
$600,000 is laying gathering interest. I don't know why it is lay-
ing all this time. It should be used, we should start using it.
Correction improvements must be made. You know this discussion has
come up in Council time after time. The last time a drainage dis-
cussion took place in this Council was months before I even came on
to the Council. I have documents piled that high that I have col-
lected because this is my pet program, and I have been working on
it regardless of who is liaison. And that thick up on my shelf up-
stairs, and I have been reading every piece of it every time I get
a chance, and all I can see over and over again, plans, programs,
investigations, research, but nothing being done. Now I for one
am going to do whatever I can, whether I have to do it at this
Council, or through the press or through the people to start the
correction of drainage now. We can't wait any longer, and anybody
who thinks that we can just expects that the people will forget
about it - it will go away if you don't think about it. It's
never going to go away, it is only going to get worse.
V/M MASSARO: I don't see anything that Councilman Zemel has said that
changes the picture at all. I didn't say that this program
shouldn't go on. There wouldn't be a dime in there for drainage
if it wasn't for me. I was the one who insisted on $600,000 being
put in there, and you can defend anybody you want. Nobody cares
more about drainage here than I do and I didn't hold nothing back.
It was a matter of the engineer being able to address the subject
properly, at the proper time. He has to wait to see what will
these storms do, is that correct, or not, Larry?
MR. KEATING: From my personal evaluation, yes.
V/M MASSARO: Several times we talked about it, that he needed to see
� for himself where the real problems were, where the areas were
flooding so that he could see how best to address this subject.
That is not the question. I have no fault with what Larry has done
here. I do have fault with what - and as far as the Charter is
concerned, we have every right to go to any member of this city
that is employed here, to discuss things with them. We cannot give
them orders, but we certainly can discuss anything to any department
head or any employee in this city. How else do we know what is go-
ing on in this city? How else can we keep our finger on things
completely? The City Manager alone would be hard pressed to do it.
C/M ZEMEL: May I just add one sentence, and that's it. First of
all, Vice Mayor, there was nothing personal aimed at you, there was
no attack at you, but you responded as though there were.
V/M MASSARO: Of course it is personal. What are you talking about.
C/M ZEMEL: Oh, you think so? But that isn't what I was going to
say. I was going to say that one of the problems that we are having
I think the Vice Mayor pointed to very very quickly, and that is the
fact that every time we have a new City Engineer, we start a new
program, and each one is smarter than the last one. Each one is
always smarter than the last one, and we never get to a final re-
sult, and I think that now is the time.
MR. GROSS: I believe the Vice Mayor is incorrect in what she said
about Ralph Thissen. Ralph Thissen --
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5/29/8O
mr
E7�
C/M DISRAELLY: Is or is not?
You know, you slur --
V/M MASSARO: Are you saying that Ralph is lying?
MR. GROSS: Let me finish. I believe after that took place, your
iscussion with Mr. Thissen, you called my office, I was not in,
you spoke to the Assistant City Manager. She explained to you
that she was in the meeting between Ralph and I in my office
when Ralph and I discussed the item and that I had never told him
at any time not to give any copies of anything to anybody.
V/M MASSARO:
When you are through I will tell you what she told me.
MEMBER OF AUDIENCE
Mr. Mayor --
MAYOR: Council is discussing it.
C/M DISRAELLY: There's only one thing that bothers me in this matter of
drainage, Mr. Mayor. I think we discussed it at Council and dis-
cussed it with the City Manager. I think I have discussed it with
Larry over the last year, that in August of last year we were given
a report by Tony Nolan, the hazard of where drainage correction
should be made and he gave us a list of areas with suggestions,
with charts and maps showing what would be up graded, with what
size pipes they would be upgraded, in order to make many of the
corrections that could be done, and as a matter of fact the esti-
mated amount of money was over half a million dollars, which would
have used up the $600,000, and the question I have been asking from
time to time was when are we going to start spending that money
against these plans which have been sitting here since last August.
Some of it is on various areas of the city, Westwood 24 is one of
them, where there is going to be a replacement of pipe. Westwood
Community 3 was involved. Lime Bay area was involved. Sunflower
was involved. And I thought the work was being done in order to
take care of the situation that has been before us. And so my com-
ment at this particular time is that we had these prepared; these
may not be engineering sketches but at least they indicated what was
to have been done. I am not an engineer, I am sure a lot more work
has to be done based on these sketches, but they indicated where
our problems were, especially based on the rainstorm of April 25,
1979, and so now this new one that I looked at, that was presented
to us in March by Tony Nolan, has some different areas involved,
and now we have one on May 27th that talks of some of these same
areas and other areas. And it would seem to me that we have this
$600,000 appropriated and that we should take one of these sets of
plans and start augmenting them. They may be wrong ones at this
particular time, but they are all areas of imminent danger that
have to be corrected, and it would occur to me that we take one of
these sets of plans and not wait any longer and I don't care which
set of plans or break them down, but let's get this thing started.
The money is there, inflation hasn't made these figures any cheaper
for these things to occur, the 10% interest or 11% interest we have
been earning in the bank isn't going to off -set it. I think it is
time that something get started. The rains are almost upon us and
in the middle of the rainy season it's going to be difficult as the
Dickens to do that work and something should be done right now.
V/M MASSARO: The reason for the conference was supposed to have been
to get those facts together. We have plans. I don't know whether
Larry has seen them or not because I haven't had an opportunity to
talk to him about this because no conference was set up to do this.
That's exactly what I am talking about. You can't just take one
set of plans and say I am going to do this piece of it because from
what I have been told before about this augmentation that is neces-
sary now, if you do the wrong thing you're not going to get any
better result. There are certain lines that have to be corrected
in order to benefit to any extent, because if you don't take the
right lines, right now, the benefit isn't going to be there, because
of the various things that can happen by not adjusting the proper
outfalls or whatever else we are talking about. This is where, as
Long as Tony had prepared certain documents at various times - we paid
him for this - but at the same time, Larry wants to be able to check
whatever Tony has done, because now the responsibility is his, be-
cause if this augmentation doesn't work, you are going to be blaming
him for it. lie's our City Engineer. So naturally he wants to sit
down and review what - and then prepare for it. Are we just going
to take and throw out the work that we have already paid for, or are
these two men going to sit down and knock heads together and decide
what is the right thing to do. We have already had an example of
that. Didn't we already have augmentation to the tune of a quarter
_g_ 5/29/80
mr
million dollars and
from what happened?
you still walking up
nothing happened? Do we
Or are we still wading
to your knees in water?
get any benefit
in water? Are
C/M DISRAELLY: Madam Vice Mayor, if I may. I am not arguing the
point. We do have plans. I think it's time that Tony, to
whom we paid funds ---
V/M MASSARO: I agree; all I am saying is why do they go ahead and
o t is. I asked Larry to go out and do this checking, not
Ed Gross. I was the one who was concerned. And this is what
drives me crazy. I am supposed to depend on Ed Gross to do
these things, but they wouldn't be done if jerky me wasn't
there doing the work. Didn't I come to you and ask you to get
out and inspect the areas for drainage and see what's happen-
ing when that rain started? I drove the streets, too, over
those rains.
C/M DISRAELLY: Apparently, this report of May 27th looking at it again
here covers in 3 or 4 areas as I look at it now, the same Sun-
flower area, the same 'Community 6 area, the same Community 5 area.
Now, if Larry saw this situation, on Wednesday, May 21st, and
Tony Nolan gave us these identical figures on August 29th of last
year, it would indicate to me that these are the areas, and if
these are the areas, and since we have the $600,000, then let
he and Larry sit down and draw the engineering and let's go ahead
with it.
MR. GROSS: That's already requested by us.
C/M DISRAELLY: And let's not spend more time dilly-dallying as to
as to where it's going to be. We have got at least 4 out of
these 6 or 7 areas that are agreed on in both reports. Can't
we clean up those two duplication of reports?
V/M MASSARO: The only thing we have to determine first is that what-
ever is done first, is this going to resolve in some kind of help
for the people. If the whole thing can't be done,where should
we - what area should we address first? That's the important
question.
C/M DISRAELLY: Again, in our discussion, I don't care which one we
start first. We've got 4 that we agree on. Take one of the 4,
instead of flipping coins, I mean let's flip a coin or pull straws
out of a hat. One of these 4 - but let's get started with one of
them, is what I am indicating, because both reports show the same
thing and on the original report that came through, that Tony
prepared he showed for example, and I am just picking one up here
that says - it happens to be Sunflower - that starting out here
where we got a 15 inch pipe, he says that should be a 30 inch pipe;
and where there's a 36 inch pipe that should be a 72 inch pipe.
Now if that's Tony's impression as to what will be the correction,
and in prior conversations with him he indicated that we start at
the point where it leads into the water and put the 36 to the 72
in first, see what happens there, and then work backwards to see
if from the point of entering into the canals or lakes, that that
corrects the situation, instead of starting at the drain and going
that way, you work from the canal backwards, is that correct?
MR. KEATING: Well that was the tack that I was using in my evaluations.
C/M DISRAELLY: And that is what I remember discussing with Tony at that
time. You weren't here. You start at the canal, put that in, hope
that does it. If it doesn't you go back one more piece; if that
doesn't do it you go back one more piece. And it's got to be done
piecemeal so we could start 2 or 3 of these theoretically at the
various seawall areas or lake areas, am I correct?
MR. KEATING: Yes. The point is that each piece that you put it in
con orms to today's design criteria, so that you are not putting
in a negotiated design in there that is somewhere in between what's
there and what we would like to have put in there. You put the
pieces in that meet today's criteria.
C/M DISRAELLY: So it seems to me, Mr. Mayor, final statement, that we
shoo ecide almost immediately and say let's start these 4 areas,
at the seawall or at the lake, and then work backwards as we have
to within the monies that we have, the $600,000 and get it done.
5/29/80
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C/M ZEMEL: I hope to end this discussion. I'd just like to
make sure that one point is clear. I think the quarter of a
million dollars that was spent that the Vice --Mayor was referring
to, if I am not mistaken, was not city money. It was donated
by developers.
V/M MASSARO: It was wasted by developers.
C/M ZEMEL: It doesn't matter, it was not city. taxpayers money.
Now with the amount of paper that we generated in the last five
and a half years with plans and schedules, we could build row-
boats and give every resident a rowboat to get out of the flood.
I think the time has come to stop talking and start doing.
V/M MASSARO: Let's get back to what I first started with, is that
w y wasn't the procedure followed that was set up here.
C/M ZEMEL: That's our fault for not checking it, it's the C ouncil's
au t for not making sure the administrator did his job, if you're
right. But there is only one administrator.
V/M MASSARO: That's the exact question that I -
MR. GROSS: The procedure was followed. And that is we are bring-
ing it to the Council now, the City Engineer made his review, and
at this point we are asking to go to the next step, which is to
go through the items and pick the items which the Council wishes
to do first.
V/M MASSARO: Does the Council pick the items or do the engineers
o it?
MR. GROSS: The engineers give you the suggestions, and the C.ouncil
picks which one is the final, where to spend the money.
C/M DISRAELLY: Larry, on your May 21st report you gave us 7 locations.
I am sure you have a copy of the August, 79 -
MR. KEATING: No I don't.
MAYOR: Have you ever seen it?
MR. KEATING: If you could show it to me I could tell you. I don't
thin I have ever seen it.
C/M DISRAELLY: Okay, you will have a copy 10 minutes after this meeting
reiis up. Take that one, look at it, sign for it in blood.
MR. KEATING: No I haven't seen this.
C/M DISRAELLY: Okay. Mr. Mayor, can I ask that Larry put his report and
this report together, stay up all the week end, and give us --
MR. KEATING: I am already staying up all the week end.
C/M DISRAELLY: Well, this is the 2 hours you were going to sleep and
come back with a recommendation to us as to 2 or 3 or 4 that we
can start with to augment this immediately.
In
KEATING: If you would like a recommendation, I think I probably
am prepared to make a recommendation to you at this point to
proceed to the point where we can actually have some construction
drawings prepared, Tony and myself would work and make some fur-
ther recommendations as we go along, in coming up with the final
pipes that we would suggest being changed, and from that point just
go out and prepare the construction drawings and specifications and go
out for bid under your authorization. But I think we need some
authorization to expend engineering monies, you know, to expend
money for engineering work to prepare the design and the drawings.
C/M DISRAELLY: Could you do that before you come in with your recommda-
tion as to which ones first?
MR. I:EATING: Firstly, I think it is pretty obvious that the worst areas
are t e sections.
C/M DISRAELLY: Pardon me, I am suggesting that you look at that August
report first before you -
MR.KEATING: If you would like me to I would be glad to.
-10-
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mr
C/M DTSRAELLY: That's why I suggest that you wait until Tuesday,
if Council agrees...
MR. KEATTNG: Can I ask you a question? Does it include areas
outside of Sunflower, Section 23 and 24 and Westwood 3?
C/M DISRAELLY: It includes southwest corner of 82nd Street and 74th
Avenue; 82nd and 71st; Westwood 24; across 80th Street; Westwood
Boulevard and 99th Avenue; 88th Avenue and 75th Street; 67th and
72nd; White Hickory Circle in the Woodlands. Those are --
MR. KEATING: Would you like me then rather to come back at the
next meeting?
MAYOR: I would think so. What time do you have to leave?
MR. KEATING: Around 3:30.
C/M DISRAELLY: Those are the areas and I will request that these
sketches be given to you
.�too.
MR. KEATING: I notice that there are some Woodlands locations here
which we didn't detect any problems because they had very little
rainfall as it happened on last Wednesday. There were no problems
when we drove through there.
C/M DISRAELLY: You said there were only 2 inches of rain there.
V/M MASSARO
They li dn' t have rain of the same
They didn't even have 7. inches.
Councilman Kelch, do you want to
intensity.
C/W KELCH: Well, it was just that I was under the impression that
you were coming up with a -►I don't know where T got the impression,
but I got the impression that you were coming up with a different
type of emphasis here which had to do with the drainage of the
road itself or the moving of catch basins or something of this
nature. As far as I was concerned, I was interested in hearing
about. Is it true that you have some different plan other than
just increasing the drainage? Ts there some relief that you anti-
cipated from the simple regrading and relocation of drainage
points?
MR. KEATING: Not in these particular areas, because the problems
there are either a lack of drainage or that the existing pipes
are just so darn small they won't take the water. Did I have a
conversation with you?
C/W KELCII: Well, I guess you must have, Larry, because it seems to
me that you had a simple plan which could be inaugurated at small
expense relatively speaking, which may possibly give us relief on
our main arterial areas. Now this is what I was hoping to hear
from today.
MR. KEATTNG: What I was saying is, and I hope I didn't mislead any
of you, is that I think the last report Tony gave to us with re-
gard to Section 23 and Section 24 would have taken up all of the
drainage problems in those areas, but expended in excess of five
or six hundred thousand dollars, instead of the whole of these
areas.
Tape 3:
V/M MASSARO: Larry, it's not what you have been saying to me. And
it's exactly why we have been waiting for rain. You didn't think
that the problem now was as extensive as we thought it was because
you said that probably the work that was done with the Jet --Vac and
the various improvements that it made might have made a difference,
and you wanted to see it for yourself after a heavy rain. That's
what you have been telling me.
MR. KEATING: Let me say that before last week's rainfall, on at
east two occasions where we had a pretty good rainstorm, I would
say the typical summer afternoon rain here, that I drove up through
Section 23 and 24 and did not observe what I considered to be a
flooding problem. I did not observe standing water anywhere, and
I was indicating to you all along that it would be impossible for
me to make any recommendations unless I saw a flooding condition.
V/M MASSARO: Well, what do you think T have been sitting here saying?
That the delay has not been my fault and it was information that
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F J
you were seeking first hand and you have been saying you don't
think this amount of money has to be spent on this and I tried
to tell you that you haven't seen it. How many times, Larry,
have you said to me, "Now you are not referring to the April
storm", and I said forget the damn April storm, we have April
storms very frequently, and these people are wading in water.
You haven't see it though. And I could understand that, and
the first time we had a significant rain I went into your office
and said Larry, get out, get a couple of men out so that you
could cover all these streets. Bring back a report of what you
see.
MR. KEATING: That's what I did.
C/M ZEMEL: Did I understand you to say a moment ago, Larry, that
you had a plan that you were pretty positive would work but that
the cost was excessive? Did I understand you to say that?
♦1y
KEATING: I think what I said was the cost to put in the total
amount of improvements that would be required to bring it up to
today's design standard, would probably be over two million dollars
in all the areas we are talking about. What I am recommending,
and I hope I didn't mislead Mrs.- Kelch and Mrs. Massaro. on this, is
that we go in - and I don't think I indicated ever that the cost
would be very low, we are still talking in the area of a half
million to a million dollars, but we are not talking about - we
are talking about going in and doing the main lines, coming out of
the sub -divisions.
V/M MASSARO
That's what I"'m trying to make them understand.
C/M ZEMEL: While I am still talking to you for a minute, I don't
think you should involve yourself too much with the cost, because
the cost is not as important as the danger to our people. I don't
think the cost is the criteria.
V/M MASSARO: Of course it is, where do you think you are getting it
from?
C/M ZEMEL: From the people who won't drown.
V/M MASSARO: Come on, Irving. Where are you going to get the money
r
C/M ZEMEL: For five and a half years we have been beating our gums
i-e this. I stood in front of this chamber for 3 years. We will
have to get the money.
C/M DISRAELLY: Again, a suggestion was made, and we are talking around
the same thing, and I suggested that Larry bring it in. Let's
wait until Tuesday until we see what happens instead of arguing
about where it's going to begin. He will bring us a report per-
taining to that. Based on the August report that I just gave him
and his report which covered some of the same areas. We also have
a third letter here from Tony Nolan indicating that Sections -
that the Westwood area alone would take $500,000. And so we have
to come to a corrlusion as to - meanwhile we have $600,000. And
I am suggesting let's get started and take care of as much as we can
with this.
V/M MASSARO: Mr. Mayor, I want Councilman Disraelly to understand
that the western area isn't completely going to be taken care of
with that money.
C/M DISRAELLY: I didn't say that it was. I said there is a third re-
port that said it would take $600,000 --
V/M MASSARO: Just the highlights, the worst areas they hope to be
able to take care of there. The areas that are significant as
being the main channels that will help to alleviate the other
sections, that they won't be as bad until they can reach them with
more money.
C/M DISRAELLY: The point is rather than talk about it, let's get some
action started, and I am suggesting that we start on Tuesday.
i
MR. KEATING: Ican certainly understand the C ouncil's impatience
wHicis really not the word I want to use, but it's the only one
I have at this point with the progress or lack of progress that has
-12- 5/29/80
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L_
been made in resolving your drainage problems --I would re-
spectfully request that you give me until the next council
meeting, rather than Tuesday, because I - it's an extra week,
but sometimes an extra week of thought and planning, and when
you're talking about spending the amount of money you are
talking about, a week's time is certainly worth taking, to
think about how you want to go about it. You don't want to
approach it in an emergency basis. I don't recommend that.
MAYOR: I don't think Council is really that concerned about
a few days. What Council is talking about is something we have
been talking about for months and months and months. We have --
as Councilman Disraelly indicated and showed you a report there,
that hasn't moved from Day 1. It is still in its original form.
Nothing has been done with it. At the same time, our City Manager
has indicated to the Council that one of the prime problems that
we have in the city is to keep the roads open. You recall the
discussion we had in here in council, that we got to keep the roads
open so that we can get emergency vehicles back in there. Isthat
right? Didn't you make that observation? Isn't that right,
Vice -Mayor?
V/M MASSARO: Yes.
MAYOR: This was a part of the discussion.
V/M MASSARO: I remember the first time we had to send trucks in
there to pull cars out of the way so the vehicles could get
through.
MAYOR: But for some reason or other we get to the place where
we agree, and then for some reason or other we don't go beyond
that. And that's what we are talking about.
V/M MASSARO: We have had a problem of having different engineers.
MR. KEATING: I have a suggestion for you if you want to move it,
and 17 you really want to move it, you have a consulting engineer
who is very qualified in drainage work. I think you are all aware
of the work load that my office has right now. Why don't you seek
a proposal from him, ask him to give you a proposal to prepare, to
do the design and prepare the plans and specifications for the
drainage modifications in the sections that you consider, that we
consider, you consider with my advice to be the most appropriate
to work on first, and have him work within the framework of the
amount of money you have to spend right now, and then the work
will be started.
C/M DISRAELLY: Larry, that's what I asked you to bring us. Look at
your report of last week, look at his report of August, get to-
gether with him, call him up, which ones are the priorities.
MR. KEATING: I don't think it is any question; I think we all know
where the problem areas are.
C/M DISRAELLY: Alright, but you have 7 of them there. Which are the
to begin with, that's what I am asking.
MR. KEATING: We have to work it all in the framework of you tell me
ow much money you want to spend. You want to spend $600,000,
you want to spend a million.
C/M DISRAELLY: No, let's first find out which ones.
MR. KEATING: In the meantime, let's think about the money too.
C/M ZEMEL: Yes, we have to, but what I am saying is if Project 1,
let's first take the priorities, I think Mr. Mayor, that comes be-
fore the money. The priority is #1. If the first priority takes
$300,000 then we have $300,000 left. If the second priority only
takes $100,000 then we can go into the third one for $200,000 but
don't let's spend the money first and then say well now I can't
do anything because I don't have enough money. Give us the
priorities.
MR. KEATING: You can prepare bids with deductible items so that you
can knock out those that are in excess of what you can pay for.
-13-
5/29/80
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C/M DISRAELLY: Give us the priorities, 1, 2, 3, 4. I think that's
what we need first. If we don't have the priorities, we don't
know which way to go and you are the guy to give us the priorities.
V/M MASSARO: I think what he is asking for and which he has to have
in order to give you an intelligent answer, you have to tell him
the top amount of money you are ready to spend in order for him to
give you an intelligent answer.
C/M DISRAELLY: I would respectfully disagree with that. The dollars
don't -come first, the priorities come first. And if the first
priority takes $600,000 we can't go anywhere else, there's no
sense in saying that this is the worst area but we won't do it.
V/M MASSARO: Are you telling him that you want him to figure any-
where from $600,000 down?
C/M DISRAELLY: No, I am not talking money. I am saying figure out
w ich is the first priority, which is the worst area in the city;
give us the second area in the city which should be fixed; give us
the third area of the city; then the dollars will fit into those
areas, not the areas into the dollar.
MR. KEATING: I might make this suggestion to you. Just a thought,
something to think about. We have some definitely identified
areas that we know the problems exist. We know that before we can
get any progress to eliminate those problems we have to do plans
and specifications. We have to design the fix and then prepare
the plans for it and go out to bid. You have enough money to do
that. You don't necessarily have enough money to do all the con-
struction. Now, in the past five years,starting about 76,the first
Public Works program came out, where grant programs were put out
by the federal government to pay for public works projects that
cities had planned for but for some reason or another couldn't pay.
If you do your plans you might be talking about $50,,000 to $60,000
maybe more, maybe $75,000. This is for all your
problem areas. You go to construction with what you can afford to
pay for. The plans for the modifications are still there and can
still be used. You just pick them up off the shelf and re -bid them
at a later date when you have more money, or if a grant program
came along, in election years is a good time for grant programs,
generally, maybe you would be lucky. I don't know. It's a gamble,
in one sense, but it's not really a gamble because you aren't
wasting anything to take that gamble.
C/M DISRAELLY: Alright, then if I may change it around, give us the
specifications for those in that priority number.
V/M MASSARO: What kind of money are you talking about to prepare
something like that?
MR. KEATING: Well if you are talking --
MAYOR: We don't want to spend $600,000 for something like that.
MR. KEATING: If you are saying - I am just going to talk round
numbers. If you are talking round numbers, let's say $750,000
worth of construction, the plans would probably run you 7% of that.
Roughly. Which is an area of $50,000.
C/M DISRAELLY: $600,000 would cost you $40,000.
MR. KEATING: I could discuss that with Tony and we could come up with
better numbers for you, if you want.
C/M ZEMEL: Without plans we couldn't do anything, right?
MR. KEATING: Well, you have to have them anyway.
C/M ZEMEL: So what's the difference, we have to do it. If it takes
away a bit of the money from the $600,000 and we need more, we
will just have to find more somewhere. Maybe we will do away with
some of the frivolous things that we do.
C/M DISRAELLY: The thought that Larry has, to prepare the engineering,
so that if grants become available,then we can send Mitch out and
say we have these sitting on the shelf, maybe we can save $200,000
by having $50,000 worth of plans.
-14-- 5/ 29/ 80
mr
r � �
V/M MASSARO: We already have that application out for a grant.
It's sitting on the shelf. We already have that application out.
C/M DISRAELLY: That's for the SSES, but that's a different grant.
That's for the infiltration grant. We are talking now of drain-
age improvement, that has nothing to do with the other. Right?
MR. KEATING: That's right. If that's what we are talking about.
The SSES is the water and sewer --
C/M ZEMEL: I think you can connect the two. Doesn't the filtra-
tion have something to do with -- isn't it costing us money be-
cause of it?
C/W KELCH: Yes, but it isn't for the construction of the same type --
MR. KEATING: I have never seen those type of grants resolve a drain-
age problem. The type of inflow they look at is connections from
houses, from condominiums --
C/W KELCH: Sanitary sewers.
MAYOR: I certainly agree we ought to have a list of priorities.
I looked at the report you sent in. I couldn't tell which was the
most pressing. I have a sneaky idea where it is, but I think we
should have a list of priorities, and I think Council ought to
make a determination as soon as that list can be made available to
us and make a determination as to how we are going to get started.
We have the money to get started, so I certainly agree that we
ought to be worrying about the drainage and not about a complete
set of programs out here that we may be working on five years from
now. We need to be taking action now specifically, no question
about it.
V/M MASSARO: If they had done it the way it was supposed to be done,
we would have had that for you today.
C/M DISRAELLY: Alright, but we didn't. That's why I am suggesting --
V/M MASSARO: It isn't, we didn't; he didn't.
C/M DISRAELLY: Alright. The pointing of a finger at this moment, if I
may, isn't going to gain anything. Larry is indicating that he
can get a report for us on June 11, which will be one week, 8 days
later than our projected time, that he will give us a report with
Tony. At that time if we can decide that we will expend X dollars
for engineering to have it ready, (1) to spend our own money and/or
to go to grants which has been suggested, and we will be on the way.
MR. KEATING: I don't suggest that you wait for grants.
C/M DISRAELLY: No, No. I said the plans will be ready for our implemen-
tation and/or -- In any event we will be able to go ahead in the
proper areas with the proper plan design.
MAYOR: Mr. Hirsch.
MR. HIRSCH: Before Larry leaves, I would like to ask him a few
questions.
MAYOR: You have 5 minutes. He has to leave.
MR. HIRSCH: That's the reason I am starting backwards. The City
Engineer, he's the City Engineer? - are these people equipped to
draw up plans? Why must we pay $5.0,00.0 to $75,000 for
plans? This a genuine engineer.
MR. GROSS: Yes, but we only have so much time, and his time is
taken up right now and our staff time is taken up - we do not
have available staff time right now for us to do it. -
MR. HIRSCH: Would it be cheaper to hire somebody to do a cheaper
job than have the plans drawn up for $75,000 elsewhere? How long
does a set of plans take to draw up? 3, 4, 5 weeks?
MR. GROSS: We don't have the space; a lot of other things are in-
volved too. And these people are experts in the field. We want to
get the job done, that's what we are looking for. If you want to
35�
5/29/80
mr
look for something to be done in 2, 3 years from now, fine.
MR. HIRSCH: Alright, next question. When you mention about pipes
going through to wherever they are supposed to go instead of 24
inches 36 inches, 72 feet or whatever you are talking about, where
are they going to, in the canals?
MR. KEATING: Yes sir.
MR.
HIRSCH:
If there are no canals, where are they going to?
MR.
KEATING:
Eventually they go into a canal.
MR.
HIRSCH:
Over where I live the canal filled up and the water was
up to the
door of my garage inside of 45 minutes.
MR.
KEATING:
Where is that?
MR.
KIRSCH:
Section 24 on 108th Avenue, Northwest 108th Avenue.
And I was
standing there and just watching it raise.
MR.
KEATING:
In the streets you mean?
MR.
HIRSCH:
I have a catch basin in my driveway, and a catch basin
across the
street from my driveway, and the water was over the
catch basin
right up to the door of my garage.
MR.
KEATING:
That's exactly the problem that we are discussing here.
The reason
for that is because the pipes that were originally in-
stalled are
much too small, they are much smaller than they should
be.
MR. HIRSCH: But the canal was over the bank. The water of the
canal was over the bank. We don't have a seawall there. In fact,
maybe the canal has to be dredged deeper to hold more water.
MR. KEATING: Our highest recorded canal elevation that day was 8.5.
That certainly shouldn't be over any banks.
MR. HIRSCH: Well this was over the bank. In fact, 3 of the people
across the street from me have built concrete walks all the way
down, 3 houses connecting one another, and they were topped with
water on to their grass.
C/M DISRAELLY: Was it pumping into C-14?
MR. KEATING: Give the location to my secretary and I will be glad
to look at it. Perhaps one of the culverts inter -connecting the
canals was plugged or something.
MR. HIRSCH: No, No, we saw the water going down into the sewer in
t e catch basin; the water was spinning around, it was going down.
MR. KEATING: Where the canal was coming over the banks, you say?
MR. KIRSCH: The canal was full and the pumps were working. Around
the —catch basin there was a bunch of debris just floating around
in a circle. In fact I called City Hall here and I spoke to some-
body at the desk, asking if they opened up the C-14 canal, and
they said they did right away.
V/M 14ASSARO: Larry, were all the pumps working that day?
MR. KEATING: Both the gas pumps and the electric pumps, I believe
were on.
V/M MASSARO: Do the automatic pumps go on?
MR. KEATING: Yes. In fact we turned them on before they would have
gone on automatically.
MR. HIRSCH: The thing that I feel where we live, is that we have
one canal covering 100 to 108th, from 80th to 83rd.
MR. GROSS: Mr. Hirsch, you asked that question yesterday. We told
you that the new canal is being -
MR. HIRSCH: You didn't mention it, that's the reason I'm asking it
again, Ed. In order to have some water being relieved in 23 and
-16-
5/29/80
mr
24 - I don't know too much about 23, but I know about 24 - we
have one canal, and if these canals are dug as you say then
probably most of the water will be disappearing and with the
amount of the sewer pipe --
C/M DISRAELLY: We can't depend on anybody but the city to take care
of those problems.
MR. HIRSCH: Who is going to dig the canal?
C/M ZEMEL: The developers. Land Section 6 and 7 might be develop-
ed; that's going to take up all that percolation in that area and
give us more water to run off, isn't that right, Larry?
MR. HIRSCH: Two years ago, we had the Corps of Army Engineers go
through this big to-do that went on for month after month after
month. Vice -Mayor MassaVo was down our clubhouse and she promised
us everything would be good right after the corps of Army Engineers
took care of this thing. So far nothing happened. Now we are go-
ing through the same thing now.
V/M MASSARO: Just a minute. Let me just say --
MR. HIRSCH: I am not criticizing you now.
V/M MASSARO: I am not saying that you are, but just one point. As
far as I am concerned, I am leading very cautiously because after
that the augmentation was completed. That was after the Army
Corps of Engineers. They didn't come in since then, and Council-
man Zemel says that that.wasn't taxpayer's money. Indirectly it
was taxpayer's money because now the taxpayers have to do it over
again. So it is taxpayer's money.
MR. HIRSCH: Alright, but what I am saying --
C/M ZEMEL: But our engineers agreed ---
V/M 14ASSARO: What I am telling you is that now our engineer tells
us that --
MR. HIRSCH: This is what I am trying to say. It's like somebody
who does something bad. He goes to the Rabbi, he goes to the
Wriest. He goes to the Priest and the Rabbi until he gets the
answer that he wants, which isn't right. The Corps of Army En-
gineers gave you an answer. Why should we have to wait ---
V/M MASSARO
They did not give us any answer. Mr. Hirsch --
MR. HIRSCH: Then why did you say at Section 24 in the clubhouse
that this thing would be taken care of when the Corps of Army
Engineers --
V/M MASSARO
We expected it, but when they came here --
MR. HIRSCH: So why does this come up two and a half years, or
three years later, we are in the same boat. Why did we wait two
and a half or three years? Why couldn't we have done it after the
Corps of Army Engineers said what you didn't want to hear,
C/M DISRAELLY: Mr. Hirsch, going back 3 years today is not going to do
us any good. We gave Larry some instructions today. We will --
MR. HIRSCH: Why couldn't these instructions have been given to
somebody 3 years ago?
C/M DISRAELLY: We can't go back 3 years; we can't throw the calendar
back. We started a calendar 5 minutes ago. Please wait until
June llth and then make your comments.
MR. HIRSCH: Now I have some more questions. Why did we leave the
developers off the hook the way we did, Leadership for one? Why
did we leave them off the hook?
V/M MASSARO: Because we had nothing to keep them there with.
MR. HIRSCH: You know, from 5 years ago, when we moved into this
development, Ed Gross was out there with water over his knees, and
so was I and so was Irv. Now this is going on for 5 years. Why
couldn't something have been done in those 5 years? Leadership
was still developing at the time. Why did you leave them off the
hook?
-17- 5/29/80
mr
V/M MASSARO: Because we had nothing to hold them on the hook with.
MR. GROSS: Mr. Hirsch, there are laws, and the City Council can
only make them do what the law requires to be done, both state
laws and county laws and city laws. We could ask them for any-
thing above that —
MR. HIRSCH: Didn't they have money into the city that you people
had to give them back for when they left?
V/M MASSARO
Not for those items. You can't hold one for another.
Not at all. We didn't give them back any money.
MAYOR: We gave them back nothing.
V/M MASSARO: We took money from them but we gave them no money.
None whatsoever.
MR. HIRSCH: Also at this last rain storm we had - not this last one,
but a year ago. Everybody knew at that time that the place was
going to get flooded and flooded and flooded. And it took prac-
tically a whole year to get this drainage thing on the agenda here.
Now why did it take that whole year. Forget about the other 5 years.
Just let's go back one year. There was no reason for it to wait
that long. Now if this fellow here is tied up the way he is tied
up, it is going to drag on for another couple of years.
C/M DISRAELLY: We will have the report a week from Wednesday on the
t .
MR. HIRSCH: The only thing I am trying to say. Please I am not
trying to criticize anybody. The only thing I am trying to say
is -- you people should keep after somebody that this lapse of
time shouldn't happen again.
C/M ZEMEL: Mr. Hirsch, you have talked out of frustration. I
understand and we all do. Everybody has to do that once in a
while. And you have them like lots of other people. Thanks.
MR. HIRSCH: When you are standing and watching the water going up
and there is nothing you can do about it -- I was just standing
and watching it "the other day.
C/W KELCH: May I say something. I couldn't help but think while
I was listening to you. I live in a section that is 13 years
old. Every time it rains, certain people in our area watch the
rain come right up to the garage doors. There is nothing wrong
with the drainage in our section. It runs off. In the 13 years
nobody has ever had water in their house, but rain after rain
after rain, they watch it come up to the garage door. There's
one right back of me, so I know what I am talking about. Mine is
great. I live on a high spot or something, but these things oc-
cur. This is South Florida. And a certain amount of these things
that you see is not as great a danger as you may think. As I say
there is absolutely nothing wrong with the drainage in the area
where I live, so please I ask of you, don't get so upset. Have
a little faith. Because we are trying to do the very best we can.
We have to analyze these things carefully. We would be hung and
quartered if we spent any of the taxpayer's money foolishly. We
got to be judicious and careful in what we do, and we certainly
are trying to do that.
MR. HIRSCH: We have a ditch out there that Leadership had dug which
they were supposed to put in pipes. The ditch is still there, 5
years ago.
MR.
GROSS:
Pipe wasn't
supposed to
be put in those ditches.
MR.
HIRSCH:
Supposed to
see how the
water ran?
MR.
GROSS:
At a later date
to build wider canals there.
MR.
HIRSCH:
Is that what
it's for?
At that time we were --
MAYOR:
Mr. Hirsch,
it's on the
ticket now.
END OF VERBATIM
-18- 5/29/80
mr
GENERAL ADMINISTRATIVE/FINANCIAL
15. Budget Adjustment - Cypress Creeek Commons Marina - Discussion and
possible action to appropriate money from the Park and Recreation
Fund to complete this facility.
SYNOPSIS OF ACTION: Tabled to meeting of 6/25/80.
The City Manager attempted to contact State and South Florida
Water Management District representatives but they were not avail-
able.
The Vice -Mayor stated she spoke with Mr. Maloy of the South Florida
Water Management District and inquired about the availability of
grant money for $10,000. Mx. Maloy said the budget is being pre-
pared now and he would submit a requisition for $10,000 within
this budget. He asked if Tamarac would be willing to contribute
part of the money toward it. The Vice -Mayor indicated she thought
that Council would appropriate any money that they could not give
US. Mr. Maloy said he would respond to the City Manager and City
Planner with an answer in 2 to 3 weeks.
C/W Kelch felt very strongly and expressed the wish to see this
finished but would be willing to postpone any action for 2 or 3
weeks in order to wait for a decision from the South Florida Water
Management District concerning grant monies. She then MOVED that
this be tabled until the Tune 25th meeting.
V/M Massaro SECONDED the motion.
VOTE: ALL VOTED AYE.
LEGAL AFFAIRS
29. Broward County Road Bond Program - Discussion and possible action
on:
a) McNab Road Utility Relocation - from University Drive to 70th
Avenue - Temp. Reso. #1618.
b) Project #4106 - McNab Road Construction - Temp. Reso. #1674.
c) Project #4108 - Prospect Road Construction - Temp. Reso. #1675.
d) Project #4116 - N. W. 31st Avenue Construction - Temp. Reso. #1676.
e) Project #4135 - Rock Island Road Construction Temp. Reso. #1677.
f) Commercial Blvd. from N.W. 88th Avenue to N.W. 94th Avenue
Beautification - Temp. Reso. #1678.
g) Project #4133 - State Road 7 - C-13 Canal to C-14 Canal -
Temp. Reso. #1682.
SYNOPSIS OF ACTION: Items a thru g tabled. City Attorney to contact
Broward County General Counsel and City Manager to review each
contract.
-19- 5/29/80
by
The Vice -Mayor said that these agreements are not in order and
need revision. C/W Kelch felt that Council should act on the
McNab Road Agreement. ,
Mr. Birken said this agreement is legally acceptable. However,
it is not an outstanding agreement. C/M Disraelly asked when the
County is oing to start building McNab road to which V/M Massaro
answered tVey are just going out for bids.
Mr. Gross stated bids have been accepted already, and the County is
scheduled to start work next month. The Vice -Mayor felt that the
City could not indemnify and hold County harmless for any and all
delays or holdups of any nature in the progression of county's
contract in the widening and improvement, as is stated in the
agreement. The Council members concurred.
V/M Massaro said the contract calls for interest at 7.5% and felt
the City should not pay any interest.
Mr. Birken stated he had never seen a contract for the relocation
of lines for Commercial Blvd. We prepared a contract without
interest and sent it to the county, which was a duplicate of the
Margate contract. He had never received a response, and thought
this was to the City's advantage. The City Manager had previously
stated that he had been to the County Commission meeting when the
Commercial Blvd. contract had been discussed and approved with
6% interest. The City Attorney further stated the McNab Road
document is not, in his opinion, the best written contract but it
is legal. The delay and "hold harmless" provisions are potentially
onerous.
If the County delays work while the City decides what to do with
the utilities, and then executes this contract, Mr. Birken said, it will
cost the City money. If the County delays and the costs go up,
then we may want to find the money for those lines in order to avoid
signing a contract that requires paying the contractor's cost for
delaying a job. Mr. Birken stated if Council acts on this docu-
ment, there should be no question of delay because the City will
have done everything that is required. However, if Council does
not act on it, then the delay question is there and is something
that the City may have to deal with at a.later time. His experience
with the County Attorney's office is that they are not receptive
to changing anything they have written.
V/M Massaro stated that last night Commissioner Thompson said re-
gardless of any contract that any one makes, if one contract has
a benefit that another hasn't, you automatically get that benefit,
and you are entitled to it and they have to give it to you, so
if Margate has a contract for no interest, the County can't make
Tamarac pay any interest.
Mr. Birken said it was his recollection that the City Manager in-
formed him after the County Commission acted on the Commercial
Blvd. contract that the County Commission had directed staff to get
in touch with Margate to try to renegotiate their contract on the
interest. The City Attorney offered to contact the County Attorney's
office to see if the contract could be revised to include only the
alternative where the County does the work and the City pays over
5 years. However, he was not optimistic that they are going to
change the interest provision because he thought that a delegation
to the County Commission would be necessary to even have any hope
for a change in that regard.
Council members concurred and C/M Disraelly further suggested
speaking to the Commissioners on an individual basis. Mr. Gross
stated that he spoke with Bob Kauth of Broward County and he, in
turn, had spoken with some of the Commissioners who indicated they
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1
TAPE 4:
wanted the same contract on McNab Road as was executed on Commer-
cial Blvd. However, as the City Attorney previously stated,
there is no contract on Commercial Boulevard. Mr. Birken said
it is probable the County is going to proceed with the road
agreements whether the City signs them or not. They are already
out for bid on McNab Road. It may be worth the City's while
not to take action on the road agreements. The county may say
they are not going to build the project if the agreements are not
signed and then another decision would have to be made.
Mayor Falck felt the City Attorney should contact the County and
then inform Council of their decision and not act on this agree-
ment at this time.
Mr. Birken indicated there is a lien onpart of the property that
was owned by TUI. The City took subject to that and has the
responsibility there. Realistically, he said, the choices are
to litigate it or deal with it. If litigation occurs in 2 or 3
years,we can have a decision and will probably be in the same
position that we would be in if we had the contract. The City
Attorney concurred with V/M Massaro that there is nothing the
City can say about where the County puts the lines.
V/M Massaro said Mr. Birken should call the County and if he
isn't able to do anything then the Council should male a decision
as to whether a delegation should go down before the Commission.
Perhaps before then, each one of the Council members should talk
to the various Commissioners with whom they are acquainted.
C/W Kelch indicated that the letter Council received from Jim Brady
concurred with the City Attorney's opinion. V/M Massaro MOVED
that the City Attorney be requested to contact the General Counsel
for the County and discuss the possibility of getting the 5 year
period and hopefully without interest, and if he is not able to
make these arrangements, that he is to come back to the meeting
after he is able to make this contact,., and give us the report on
it so that appropriate action can be taken by council, -on otheritems,
she will be prepared to give by report to Council on Wednesday
of next week and fel't..each Council member can give'his own report.
Mr. Birken added that he received a letter from the County regard-
ing illumination and landscaping which won't take place without
agreements. V/M Massaro stated that these agreements required
the City to assume all of the maintenance responsibility; whereas
our responsibility is minimal compared to the amount that belongs
to somebody else.
To C/M Zemel's question regarding the form of these agreements,tlie
City Attorney said the agreements are standard. Council approved
essentially the same agreement for beautification on Commercial
Boulevard and then we submitted a side letter clarifyin- our
understanding of certain provisions pertaining to the powers o:,'
the director which accompanied our acceptance of th(� a reement.
It was understood that if the City wanted the beautification then
the agreements had to be signed because the County does have the
same agreement with all the cities where construction is taking
place,and it is &problem for them to make modifications because
they run the risk of every other city coming back and saying they
want the same changes. Tamarac does not have as bid, a problem
with the line relocations as far as negotiating changes, he said
as we do with the beautification and illumination.
V/M Massaro said the City accepts the maintenance or the County
will put in just grass that can be cut rough, because that is the
only kind of maintenance they will assume which is perhaps once
or twice at the most a year. This was discussed and Council was
not in favor of that. She explained that on Commercial Boulevard,
Sunrise is responsible for a certain portion, Lauderhill is re-
sponsible for another portion and then Tamarac maintains another
portion. Those who have a responsibility must assume it. As far
as other roads, where the County is involved, the only responsibility
they will assume is that once or twice a year they will cut the
grass. V/M Massaro believed that Council had decided to assume
the maintenance of the beautification because in some locations the
City abuts the property and in reviewing the plans the beautification
-21- 5/29/80
mr - by
was held down to a minimum but was still kept attractive.
C/M Disraelly felt that a simultaneous agreement must be made
with every municipality sharing the maintenance covered
by the agreement before Tamarac executes the agreement as far
as far as beautification is concerned. The lighting agreement,
he believes, covers 7 lights,which seems to be the correct number,
but beyond that point, the luminaires should be charged to that
other city and all these things must be spelled out before the
agreement is executed;otherwise,Tamarac will wind up theoretically
paying for everything.
C/W Kelch brought up the fact that when Tamarac assumed the
maintenance along the eastern portion of Commercial Boulevard
extension which abuts Oakland Park, they in turn, assumed the
maintenance of 31st Avenue. However, there is no indication of
that in this material.
Mr. Gross said that during the first year of City operation of
Commercial Boulevard, the cost of maintaining the medians was
substantially higher than expected because of the labor work,
the handwork and in replacing foliage. The foliage requires
much care,including chemicals for insects,and maintenance of
the sprinkler system.
C/W Kelch said McNab Road was beautified by the County without
consulting the City and felt the City should not delay action
on this agreement because Broward County has a history of doing
what they please, unless they have something down in writing to
the contrary.
The City Manager pointed out that small foliage looks very nice,
but is very expensive and the beautification .should consist only of
trees, grass and some bushes as we have in our other medians,
and with Bahia grass a sprinkler system is not needed. The Vice -
Mayor concurred, adding that plans must be approved. V/P1I,1assaro
reiterated she MOVED that Mr. Birken be instructed to contact
the Gn�neral Counsel for the County and to report back to Council,
and to table this item until he comes back with his report. In
the meantime, the City Manager should be looking at every one of
these contracts and she will give a memorandum by Wednesday and
thought it a good idea if members of the Council send in some kind
of thoughts on all of these contracts; but certainly the City
Attorney or City Manager should be reviewing them and giving their
input.
C/M Disraelly SECONDED the motion.
VOTE: ALL VOTED AYE.
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT
38. Building Permit
possible action
building permit
SYNPOSIS OF ACTION:
Fees - Temp. Reso. #1680 - Discussion and
to amend Resolution No. R-79-1 adopting
fees.
Adopted as amended. Resolution No. R- gQ LYPASSED.
Mr. Birken stated he read the correction on page 8, Section C,
and inquired if it was Council's desire that all of the fees
that preceded do not apply if the job is less than $300.
C/M Zemel and C/W Kelch indicated concurrence except for electri-
cal work. The City Attorney suggested adding "Construction,
alterations, additions, repairs and maintenance of items not set
forth above, the cost of which exceeds $300, shall pay a fee as
set forth below." Council then requested language regarding
electrical work.
Mr. Birken read the language to be inserted after the words
"Chief Building Official": "comma other than electrical work,
a permit for which is required regardless of the cost of the
work". He then stated the language previously quoted would
follow this insert.
C/M Disraelly MOVED to adopt Temp. #1680 revising the Building
-22- 5/29/80
by
Department fees. C/W Kelch SECONDED the motion.
VOTE: C/W Kelch
Aye
C/M Zemel
Aye
C/M Disraelly
Aye
V/M Massaro
Absent
Mayor Falck
Aye
REPORTS
52. City Council
C/W Kelch had no report.
C/M Disraelly said he had written to six members of the Droward
delegation in reference tD the proposed Mouse Bill 1700 which
is the enclave bill and sent each one a map of the City showing
the two enclaves. He received a letter today from Terry O'Plalley
thanking hm and reporting that the proposed bill is the Community
Affairs Committee at the present time, and doesn't know whether
it will reach the floor during this session. So he concluded
by saying "several years ago he sponsored a bill closing the hole
in the donut in Tamarac so there should be no doubt in your mind
that I support this approach to the annexation". The City manager
stated the "hole in the donut" he was talking about is that one
large house, five acres on Rock Island, that was across the road
from the old City Hall.
C/M Disraelly stated that when staff reports are presented, he
requested the Asst. City Manager to have a form made out whereby
when a site plan is presented to Council, this form indicate that
retention fees or area have been taken care of, retainage that is
involved is taken care, that the bond is covered, etc. All of
the questions that are asked at every single meeting for every
single site plan that comes before Council will have been checked off
and Council won't have to go through the process of asking on each site
plan. This form should be part of the staff report.
V/M Massaro also requested that this form indicate not only staff
sign -off but also fee figures.
C/M Disraelly felt it would be more helpful if Council
could see that it was initialed by the Chief Building official,
City Engineer, the City Planner, whoever is involved. At the pre-
sent time staff is called to the meeting. If Council had this re-
port, staff wouldn't have to attend. Mr. Gross indicated he would
take this matter up with the Planner.
C/M Zemel said that some weeks ago he reported to Council that there
was a hazardous traffic condition created by buses making two right
turns very quickly from 80th St. onto 103rd Avenue onto 80th Ct. in
Section 24. He had contacted Mr. Victor Iskowitz of the Broward County
Transportation Department who had asked him to call a Mr. Johnson
and he said action would certainly be taken; no action has been
taken. The buses are just as dangerous. They go onto people's
lawns and a hazard to other traffic. He had the County contacted
and requested a stop sign that would at least slow traffic down,
which is in process. He requested the City Manager to have the
Police Department enforce the traffic laws. Bus drivers have been
warned for a year and a half now and the traffic laws should be en-
forced.
In addition over a period of the last nine or ten months, he has
been requesting various department heads through the City 11anager
and Assistant City Manager to have a street sign replaced on 100th
Terrace and 81st Terrace in the same section. It is 17 months that
that street sign is down.
V/M Massaro had questioned the City Manager and the Engineering
Department as to what relief can be given to the shopkeepers at
Burkard Plaza. There was a meeting scheduled with the County with
Rafael Pena also attending. The shopkeepers and the owner of the
property are very disturbed because nothing has resulted from the
meeting and the County had a predetermined opinion before looking
at the situation or finding some way to relieve the problem. She
felt these people are going to be out of business in less than a
year.
_23_
5/29/80
by
The County is putting in ctrbing and a median on Rock Island
Road so that ro one -can cross there the Vice -Mayor stated. Most of their customers
come from Woodlands and Inverrary. They can enter but then
to exit, traffic has to go East on Commercial Boulevard,
through Section 6 and back onto Rock Island Road and they are
just not going to do it.
People have been entering and exiting on Rock Island Road ever
since Burkard Plaza has been built, she added, and now the County wants
to abolish that. Even though Commercial Boulevard has been
widened 7 feet, this opening on Rock Island Road isn't that
close. She asked how Council felt"so that some type of action
could be taken if Council felt it should be done.
Mr. Gross said that Traffic Engineer at the County said if the
City would give the County a hold harmless agreement, there was
a possibility the County would put the median cut in on Rock
Island Road because the location is not within the 600 feet re-
quired by the County.
C/M Disraelly pointed out the County is leaving open the median
cut that runs between McNab Shopping Plaza and Family Mart
Shopping Plaza because otherwise there will be no food getting
into McNab Plaza, which is 300 feet from University Drive on
McNab Road and at least as heavily traveled as Rock Island.
Mayor Falck added that Burkard Plaza serves a very worthwhile
purpose to Sections 6 and 7. It is clean and he has never heard
a complaint.
The City Manager suggested the City pass a resolution requesting
that the City Attorney send a letter saying that the City wants
a median opening there. Council members concurred and the City
Attorney said it would be ready for the meeting on Tuesday,
June 3rd.
V/M Massaro noted there were no bills from Williams, Hatfield &
Stoner except that $100 on this agenda and requested the City
Manager to follow this up because Mr. Nolan was to bill the City
monthly.
1)Regarding the Helistop at the Gate, V/M Massaro had contacted
Dan Mica, who in turn, contacted the FAA and expects to hear fur-
ther from him after he receives a reply from FAA. 3) C/M Disraelly
spoke with Mr. Nilson last week and was told that Tallahassee
would not grant a license until another hearing was held. He
brought up the matter of the site plan, and said that 1000 feet
from the western wall of Sabal Palm condominium is within 12
feet of Woodland Boulevard, so all the people in that area would
have to be notified. Mr. Nilson mentioned that Mr. Harris ori-
ginally came in "not with clean hands" and therefore the appli-
cation will be reviewed very closely.
He further said that no one has authority
to land there and if anybody sees him landing he would suggest
that they take the number of the plane and the time and date that
it landed, get a photograph if possible and then to call the police.
4)V/M Massaro said there are two helicopters,a yellow one and a
white one, but they only come down for a minute and then are
back up.2)V/M Massaro requested Commissioner Forman to contact
Mr. Nilson at the FAA and ask for the date that's been set for a
hearing and he said he would let us know as soon as lie had a reply
because he was going to send a letter out immediately. Furthermore,
she had been in touch with the authorities that have ability to
license or not license etc., and it was suggested that we request the
County to look for injunctive relief, and in the meantime, to
make sure that they do not bypass ghat hearing and give them a
license. At the present time they have no license and they are
landing in violation.. She suggested. the City Attorney see .i f
anything could be done about encouraging Broward County to get
an injunction.5)C/M Disraelly also added that Mr. Nilson also
said that the original site plan that was presented to them was
an area over near the airport, off: Powerline Road.
V/M Massaro inquired about the procedures used for lot clearing
costs. She received a bill in the mail for clearing a lot and
it said "Inadvertently you were not billed previously for lot
clearing December 17th". She questioned how she could have re-
ceived a bill in the mail for a lot that she doesn't own with her
address, her name, as property manager.
-24- 5/29/80
by
Mayor Falck recalled that the auditors reviewed this item
extensively and said the City had no follow up. The City
Manager was told at that time corrective measures should
be taken in order to alleviate that type of situation. The
City Manager said he would check into this matter and re-
port back to Council.
C/W Kelch said since the Vice -Mayor has brought up this lot clear-
ing program, suggested the City Manager tell Council
about the regular lot clearing program of those people that
are under agreement to have their lot cleared. There is such
a list of people and they are cleared on a regular basis,and
the City is reimbursed for this. There is also the emergency
lot clearing for people who have not entered into the volun-
tary program where the City would clear the lot and then have
to file a lien. She felt that the City Manager should review
this general information"for the scope of the work has never
come to the Council's attention, and it would be to Council's
advantage especially as we start getting into the budgeting
period and requested the City Manager to explain this program
and copies of the program sent to the Council.
54. City. Attorney Mr. Birken informed Council that supplemental
oral argument in the Garchar case was held before the 4th District
Court of Appeal this morning. The issue pertains to compara-
tive negligence on the part of Mr. Garchar on whether there
was error by the Circuit Court in not granting a certain jury
instruction that was requested and believed that the other
matters have been resolved and this is the only matter left
to be decided, and that a decision will be coming down in the
not too distant future.
53. City Manager Mr. Gross stated that he and some members of
Council attended the breakfast this morning at the Tamarac
Elementary School where awards were given to the volunteers
of the community who helped in the school. It was very en-
lightening for him to see the number of volunteers that were
actually involved in the school activity, substantially more
than he has ever seen in any school. He felt that Mrs. Brown
and Mrs. Donahue, who was in charge of volunteer services,
should be commended for the great enthusiasm which they have
brought to the volunteer program.
52. Mayor Falck said he attended the self-insurance fund meeting
in Tallahassee last Friday, was elected vice-chairman and
conducted the organization meeting. One of the things that
was built into the plan at the outset was a going in 10% to
20% deviation; that if there is a decent loss experience for
the last 2 years, we can get a deviation up to 20%. If we
look at ours when it comes due in the fall, it could possibly
save as much as 20% because our loss ratio last year and the
year before was good. Contrary to the discussions that have
taken place on the liability, where no deviation has been
built into the plan, this one does include a 10 to 20o devia-
tion. When our policy comes up for renewal, we could save a
sizable amount of money, be reported.
The Mayor also discussed the status of Tamarac's grant with
the people in Tallahassee. Mitch Ceaser indicated on Sunday
that he was going to Tallahassee again on Tuesday. He was
coming to City Hall tomorrow to discuss the status on that
particular project.
Mayor Falck requested that Council authorize a one -day trip
to Orlando for the Mayor to attend the conference on Liability
of Local Governmental Officials on June 13, 1980. He coin --
mended the City Attorney for the information he has been pro-
viding about the current status of sovereign immunity. In order
to put together some kind of proposal for Council to consider
the latter part of next month, Council will need to know speci-
fically what our involvement could possibly be as local govern-
mental officials.
57. Authorization Of One -day Trip For Mayor on June 13th To
Orlando For Conference on Liability of Governmental Officials.
SYNOPSIS OF ACTION: Agendized by Consent Mayor authorized to attend
conference in Orlando on June 13, 1980.
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by
V/M Massaro "MOVED TO AGENDIZE" the discussion and possible
action on the approval of the Mayor going to Orlando on
June 13th, 1980. C/W Kelch SECONDED the motion.
VOTE: ALL VOTED AYE.
V/M Massaro MOVED that the Mayor be authorized to make the trip
to Orlando on June 13th, 1980. C/W Kelch SECONDED.
VOTE: ALL VOTED AYE.
Mayor Falck stated regarding the organization meeting in Talla-
hassee that representatives of Lloyd's home office in London
attended and will be providing the excess and umbrella coverage.
They have a top ceiling on everything so they had no need for
sovereign immunity or for medical because of the governmental
medical program. The Mayor expressed satisfaction on the ex-
change of philosophies with these representatives.
MEETING WAS RECESSED UNTIL 9:30 A.M., TUESDAY, JUNE 3, 1980.
ATTEST:
_4m�—Crf,v CLERK
APPROVE sv
CITY COUNCIL ON
Thisublic document was promulgated at a cost of or
$ ].� per copy to inform the general public and public officers
and employees about recent opinions and considerations by the City
Council of the City of Tamarac.
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